Windows 10 - free upgrade to those with PC using Windows 7 or 8

[crane3]

Originally Posted by cvkemp

I have always believed that the only way to go was a fresh clean install. Why I was an IT Engineer for years and that was just the way we did it. But back then I had a whole network of servers that I could use to back up my data too.

With windows, the big problem is that a "clean" install isn't just a clean install of the OS, but also of ALL the apps one is using that has to be reinstalled, including a "where the h... is that reg id" for this app or that.

So there is a lot of work & reconfigurations to be done along with a clean install of windows. Of course, this all depends on how one uses a computer.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Uhhh.....remember this is WINDOWS we are talking about.

I've 'upgraded' a few times, but always had much better results when wiping and installing fresh.

Windows is by no means unique in that regard. On linux, using a dist-upgrade is somewhat flaky as well -- some estimates say 25% of the time it will fail due to arcane package conflicts.
I use a rolling-release distro, so there are no dist-upgrades but I fall prey to small conflicts on an ongoing basis instead. Still, the tradeoff is worth it for a tinkerer.

I have no idea what the status is for Mac users, but I would bet they have their own horror stories to tell.



Completely replacing the OS without wiping installed programs, AND keeping all user settings, is a complicated feat. I am not surprised MS hasn't mastered it -- they aren't the only ones.

Originally Posted by crane3

With windows, the big problem is that a "clean" install isn't just a clean install of the OS, but also of ALL the apps one is using that has to be reinstalled, including a "where the h... is that reg id" for this app or that.

So there is a lot of work & reconfigurations to be done along with a clean install of windows. Of course, this all depends on how one uses a computer.

Unless one has specialized needs, one should not need to be running specialized software that requires licenses. LibreOffice, Chrome/FF, VLC and a few other key FOSS software suffice for most things, and you can even install those en masse through Ninite/Chocolatey.

[Ripplinger]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Unless one has specialized needs, one should not need to be running specialized software that requires licenses. LibreOffice, Chrome/FF, VLC and a few other key FOSS software suffice for most things, and you can even install those en masse through Ninite/Chocolatey.

I do a lot of video and audio editing, and even more with graphics, photos, etc. Right now my uninstall program is showing 318 programs, but each plugin for Photoshop or PaintShop Pro will list as a separate program, and the graphics programs are the ones with the most registration and license keys you need to hang onto. Forever. And games. But I'd guess at least 30% of my programs require licenses or registrations.

When I had WinXP, I never once had to reformat through multiple system upgrades including motherboards and CPUs. WinXP had this great way of just letting you swap the hardware, boot up and it would find the new drivers. My 2nd PC that still runs 24/7 is still running on the original WinXP installation from 2002. And yes, it's rock solid, never BSODs or freezes, it's more stable than my Win7 x64 PC. I can't even remember the last time I restarted it, that only happens due to a power failure that reboots it, or a new Kaspersky installation. I've had 3 PCs like that where I just kept upgrading the hardware without reinstallation, the 1st one I finally changed to Win7 x64 last year, but the 3rd one is also still on WinXP, but it's a back up only now, I rarely use it anymore, but it also still works perfectly.

So when you consider digging out your old copies of programs and the licenses (at least I've always been diligent about saving them on DVDs), and configuring all the options again for each program, it literally takes me a couple of months to get everything set back up on a new install. And even then I'll go to use something and realize I forgot to install that program and I'll be installing on and off for quite awhile.

I avoid reinstalling the OS like the plague. I just never understand these people who reformat at the drop of a hat. Well in a way I do, because those that I know that do it have maybe 10 programs installed and 5 games and no customizations and that's it.

[fjtorres]

Win10 hits the home stretch:


http://www.cnet.com/news/finally-win...its-big-debut/

To get ready for July 29, Microsoft has halted the release of any new builds for the time being, Gabe Aul, head of the Windows Insider program, said in a blog post published on Monday. Further, Microsoft won't be delivering any further Windows 10 ISO files, which you can copy to a USB drive or burn to a disc in order to install the operating system from scratch. Instead, Microsoft wants Windows Insiders to focus on testing the Windows 10 upgrade process, so any new builds will be delivered as traditional Windows updates.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Windows is by no means unique in that regard. On linux, using a dist-upgrade is somewhat flaky as well -- some estimates say 25% of the time it will fail due to arcane package conflicts.
.....

Unix/linux is worse from my experience. I've almost always ended up with hours and hours of maintenance getting everything to work again.

[fjtorres]

And MS kills the last bit of FUD about how free free Win10 will be:

http://www.zdnet.com/article/microso...tag=TREc64629f

Earlier this week, Microsoft published its license terms for Windows 10. Today, the company updated its support lifecycle policy for the new OS. In the process, they've cleared up the confusion over a phrase that defines the new Windows 10 servicing model.

Here's the tl;dr:

For Windows 10, Microsoft will continue its traditional 10-year support lifecycle. The five-year mainstream support phase begins with the release of Windows 10 on July 29, 2015, and a second five-year extended support phase begins in 2020 and extends until October 2025. (That's a few months later than July 29, 2025, because of the way Microsoft calculates support dates.)

A note to that policy qualifies the support commitment to devices where the OEM continues to support Windows 10 on that device.

Back in January, Windows boss Terry Myerson announced the new "Windows as a service" plan, using this language:

This is more than a one-time upgrade: once a Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it current for the supported lifetime of the device - at no additional charge.

Today's announcement clears up the "supported lifetime of the device" controversy.

More details at the source but the bottom line is 10 years free support.
No bait and switch.

[tubemonkey]

"supported lifetime of the device"

Who determines that? Microsoft or when the device dies or is no longer being used?

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

"supported lifetime of the device"

Who determines that? Microsoft or when the device dies or is no longer being used?

And is there life after death, Resurrection, rebirth and the glory of Bill?

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

"supported lifetime of the device"

Who determines that? Microsoft or when the device dies or is no longer being used?

They just told you: the supported lifetime is 10 years, the same as every OS this side of XP.

The reason they are using those terms is that there will be future versions of Win10 that will be supported past 2015 but devices that get Win10 this year will not be supported past that date.

It used to be that support was based on when the OS version was released but it looks like now it will be based on when the device was released. (Unless the OEM arranges for longer support.)

[kennyc]

Not exactly, I think it means more something like this:

.....While much of this information seems rather straightforward and admittedly a bit humdrum, there is one remaining detail that may cause you to think twice before upgrading to Windows 10. In the fine print beneath the fact sheet released yesterday afternoon, Microsoft writes, “a device may not be able to receive updates if the device hardware is incompatible, lacking current drivers, or otherwise outside of the Original Equipment Manufacturer’s (OEM) support period.”
.....

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computi...rs-of-support/

[ApK]

I don't see where you guys are getting your conclusions from, so maybe help me find it.

I see that MS is saying w10 will be supported for 10 years. I do not see where the "lifetime of the device" is defined. Lifetime of support for the OS is NOT the same as lifetime of the device.
So I see nothing that says W10 updates will be FREE for the whole 10 year support time of the OS.

Everything I see still leave the possibility that the W10 updates will only be FREE for 4 or five years or however long the vendor determines the lifetime of the device, and then after that, MS will still be issuing updates and fixes for W10, but maybe you'll have to pay for them.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by ApK

I don't see where you guys are getting your conclusions from, so maybe help me find it.

I see that MS is saying w10 will be supported for 10 years. I do not see where the "lifetime of the device" is defined. Lifetime of support for the OS is NOT the same as lifetime of the device.
.

What MS is saying is that support will not change.
Right now, everything is free for the first five years. Service packs and bug fixes, etc). For the last five years only bug fixes and selected feature packs are free.
(There is a difference between what you are entitled to and what MS offers up above and beyond what you are entitled to.)

For the second phase of the support cycle, businesses can choose to pay for added support but MS does not offer/charge consumers for those services. They even reluctantly allow companies to pay for support for XP.

They don't charge for consumer support because the economics of tracking that make no sense. MS isn't into nickle and dime-ing you to death.

All the new terms mean is that if Win10 gets an update that adds, say mindreading support, in 2027, people who got devices in 2025 will get the feature for free and people who got their devices in 2015 won't, even if their hardware supports it.

That's it.
With updates coming "monthly" under the new, XBOX-like model, there is even less sense than ever in charging for updates.

All that is changing is that the established 10 year support cycle runs from the day you got the device and activated it, not from the release date of the OS.

For example, if you bought a Win8 PC today you actually get 7 years support because the OS is 3 years old. Buy a Win10 PC in three years and you still get 10 years support. It's a rolling 10-year, ahem, window.

It's a free upgrade and those are the new terms, pretty much the same as before or better (for some). Don't like it, don't get it.
Wanna think it over?
Wait 10-12 months.
But after that it'll cost $120 to upgrade and all you'll get extra is support in 2026.

[PatNY]

Originally Posted by ApK

Sorry Pat, but you just posted a a bunch of your own speculative, possibly ageda-driven, spin.

You conveniently overlooked several important points:
1. That page you link is a wiki page by a contributer from the MS Community forum, not an MS policy statement.
2. About your 5 to 10 year thing, you left out the introductory phrase: "This is still being debated, but the logical conclusion is...:
3. Even in what you posted, there is nothing that says those updates would be FREE for that long, only for the "supported lifetime," which was "still being debated" and is what the author of the article reported as being discussed on those internal MS slides.

So, it ended up Gordon Kelly was dead wrong, just as I thought he was. In light of recent news from Redmond, not only do I stand by everything I originally said about Kelly, but I am even more convinced now that he is really dense or delusional and/or has some sort of really weird narcissistic agenda going on.

As for that person on the Microsoft blog I quoted, he is still an insider even if he’s not talking officially for the company. And whaddaya know … he was spot on all the way back in January about what W10 support would be.

At any rate, I’m glad that at least some in the media have started calling out and questioning Kelly’s sanity/agenda too, as shown by the BGR article that wodin linked to. Kelly is basically the only one who’s constantly whining about W10 things that others find to be not a big -- or even minor – deal at all.

I think that 10 years of FREE support (the 5 + 5 model) for W10 should suffice for almost every single user. I’ve never ever used the same computer for 10 years. Most of my laptops last about 4-5 years max before they are retired and recycled or break in some way.

--Pat

[Gotadimple]

Originally Posted by PatNY

So, it ended up Gordon Kelly was dead wrong, just as I thought he was. In light of recent news from Redmond, not only do I stand by everything I originally said about Kelly, but I am even more convinced now that he is really dense or delusional and/or has some sort of really weird narcissistic agenda going on.

Nah!

Gordon Kelly is a freelance journalist whose work is posted on Forbes.com and other places. If you read the most recent Windows 10 bloggings and then follow links to his earlier blogs on the OS, you will see he has a theme he was advancing. None of the blogs going back as far as early May of this year are different. It's the same theme, only the 'agenda item' is substituted. A lot of noise about the same three things: change is bad, Microsoft is the evil empire, Microsoft is a liar.

Everyone has to earn a living, this is how he earns his. It just pays to consider the source and read with a questioning mind.

Rita

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Gotadimple

A lot of noise about the same three things: change is bad, Microsoft is the evil empire, Microsoft is a liar.

Rita

Somebody tell him it's 2015 out there, not 1995, and Microsoft is just another giant company paying dividends to retirees. He needs to get with the program: the evil empire du jour is now Amazon, at least until the end of the month.