Authors United, allies, demand government intervention - Page 3

fjtorres · 07-15-2015, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

That is rubbish. If the people who buy new books shortly after release don't register as a significant portion of all readers or book purchases, then they simply disappear into statistics. If the publishers have to depend on those that buy books brand new right after release to stay afloat, then their business model is flawed. Please don't kid yourself, even on mass market the publisher makes a profit. Of course they don't want to since the profit margin is smaller.

Well, making the "bestseller" lists depends on months of preorders and pre-release hype to sucker people into buying books *before* the word gets out that the thing is just unreadable. That is how you get the increasingly common one-week wonder "bestseller".

It is the same approach to "consumers" that Author Solutions takes; "take 'em for all they're worth before they realize what you're doing." Repeat business not needed. It's the old "sucker born every minute" and "no shortage of dreamers" business strategy. They aren't wrong, so far.

Check the reviews on this bit of "culture" from the guardians of literature.

http://www.amazon.com/Shore-Thing-Ni.../dp/B0062GLWZS

Beware, you might hurt yourself laughing.

fjtorres · 07-15-2015, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiat_Lux

« Readers are presented with fewer books that espouse unusual, quirky, offbeat, or politically risky ideas, as well as books from new and unproven authors. This impoverishes America’s marketplace of ideas. One wonders if Common Sense
would have found a publisher in the current environment.»

Since when has any mainstream publisher been the first publisher of unusual, quirky, offbeat, or politically risky ideas?

Not in living memory. These days the internet is home to subversive thinking.
(Not that you'd expect those self-important fossils to notice.)

But the timing and source of the screed is fully, considering;

http://the-digital-reader.com/2015/0...ted-cruzs-bio/

Only approved thought gets by the gatekeepers of bestsellerdom.

hardcastle · 07-15-2015, 08:54 AM

I haven't seen any reporting done on this outside of the ruckus the usuals have created (Streitfeld and co in their various newspapers). Typically, I prefer reporting, but I think this is good news. The report is absolutely horrendous.

What amuses me the most is that everything the report complains about, either it's their fault or it's a good thing.

They say: Amazon limited the sale of our books once, redirecting users to others and turning off features like pre-orders! (Actual Quote) "In all, Amazon’s sanctions drove down the sales of these books on Amazon.com by fifty to ninety percent in all formats, according to sales figures obtained by Authors United."

I'd say: Because you refused to make an agreement with them to sell your books. What were they supposed to do, take it on good faith you'd still provide the books? I wouldn't trust someone that complains about me so bitterly all the time. This was your own fault, not Amazon's.

They say: (Actual Quote) "By the time the Amazon and Hachette settled their dispute eight months later, tens of millions of books that would have otherwise been sold were not."

I'd say: Other books sold instead. Create a void, something else fills it. You are not necessary. I'd be more sympathetic to Hachette if they had offered an alternative way for its customers to buy books so that the authors didn't lose out. But they did nothing.

They say: Amazon is a monopoly!

I'd say: It isn't. It's the market leader, and the preferred choice for many. There's also Apple, Google, Nook, Kobo, Smashwords, Oyster, dozens of DRM-free marketplaces, and more. Why not just double down on those bookstores? Partner with them to bolster their image?

They say: Amazon has too much control over the book market!

I'd say: And you let them by letting your consumers go there instead of offering a different option for several decades. But even still - it's about golly dang time there was a market leader who attempted to do anything in book market. Take it away from the big five publishers, because they've been driving us into the ground with terrible prices, less and less selection, and a complete lack of digital quality and presence. Sorry if Amazon's busy carving out your market for you. I mean, there's room if you want it, still.

They say: Amazon would charge me money to advertise and bolster my book on their pages over their exclusive deals!

I'd say: Yeah, that makes sense. It's an exclusive deal, isn't it? Amazon's been defending itself against the big publishers for how many years? It only makes sense they'd want to prioritize their own books over you guys, who seem to love complaining so much and might walk away some day. Or die, like you constantly threaten you might.

They say: (Actual quote) "As Amazon extracts an ever larger share of revenue from booksales, the publishers’ shrinking revenue base is already curtailing the diversity and quality of carefully written, well-edited books available to the public."

I'd say: As Amazon continues to offer indie authors a better and better deal for striking it out on their own, offering a better royalty and effective advertising deals that no publisher seems willing to negotiate with Amazon or an ad agency, the publishers' shrinking revenue base is already making eBook marketplaces all that sweeter, with flourishing creativity in every genre, allowing every author's voice to be heard. If the book publishers' market plan is unsustainable, so be it.

From the consumer's side, there's no negative. When the content is the same, I prefer an indie book over a big publisher book. The indie books are under five dollars, long, well edited, with nice cover art, better typesetting, more eReader features, less typos, and more reader engagement.

They'd rather complain to the DOJ and wail about injustice than do basically anything else (up to and including make an actual legal appeal that holds up to the most casual of readers like myself). There's so much more to be done on an aggressive book market push, like better advertising, better contracts for authors, better eBook prices, and perhaps even a new eBook marketplace that provides tangible upgrades for Kindle users.

As an appeal to the readers, this letter makes me unsympathetic. I don't love Amazon and I find many faults in them. But I'm given no alternative by the publishers, no juicy new way to read books that makes me want to move away from Amazon. The publishers offer no solution, and they have tried nothing else to prevent their own demise.

If they die, they die by their own inaction.

DuckieTigger · 07-15-2015, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Well, making the "bestseller" lists depends on months of preorders and pre-release hype to sucker people into buying books *before* the word gets out that the thing is just unreadable. That is how you get the increasingly common one-week wonder "bestseller".

It is the same approach to "consumers" that Author Solutions takes; "take 'em for all they're worth before they realize what you're doing." Repeat business not needed. It's the old "sucker born every minute" and "no shortage of dreamers" business strategy. They aren't wrong, so far.

Check the reviews on this bit of "culture" from the guardians of literature.

http://www.amazon.com/Shore-Thing-Ni.../dp/B0062GLWZS

Beware, you might hurt yourself laughing.

guardians of literature. Well, the reviews were interesting. The book can't be that bad, can it? Downloaded a sample.

Deleted the sample after fighting through the first 3 pages.

ZodWallop · 07-15-2015, 12:53 PM

Hardcastle, I agreed with your points up until:

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardcastle

The indie books are... well edited, with nice cover art, better typesetting, more eReader features, less typos, and more reader engagement.

Boy, I'm glad you found those books. The indie e-books I've purchased (which are usually reprints by mid-list genre authors whose paper books went out of print) tend to be the opposite of what you describe. I Alf them and clean them up a bit, but it can be some work.

I support indie books and am glad that the e-book market has made it viable to bring these niche titles back into print. But I can't kid myself that, on the whole, the indies do a better job than the big guys. That is just demonstrably wrong.

fjtorres · 07-15-2015, 01:17 PM

The funny thing is, the more the self-important ones whine, the more transparent their motives become. And the more obvious the impact of Indies.

It is very clear that Amazon's most galling crime is offering a level playing field for indie and BPH titles. The fact they promote books to consumers they might want instead of books they're paid to promote.

Discounting? They don't complain of B&N discounting. Or Costco discounting even though they get ripped off under deep discount accounting. They don't complain about Apple or Nook or Kobo ebooks. Why? Because those folks play the payola game.

They're complaining because the game isn't rigged in their favor anymore.
And the more they try to prop up a case against Amazon, the more of themselved they expose.

fjtorres · 07-15-2015, 01:20 PM

As promised, Konrath is taking on the Publishers Guild today:

http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2015/0...-nonsense.html

Not as much fun but a fair amount of deserved scorn.

hardcastle · 07-15-2015, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Hardcastle, I agreed with your points up until:

Boy, I'm glad you found those books. The indie e-books I've purchased (which are usually reprints by mid-list genre authors whose paper books went out of print) tend to be the opposite of what you describe. I Alf them and clean them up a bit, but it can be some work.

I support indie books and am glad that the e-book market has made it viable to bring these niche titles back into print. But I can't kid myself that, on the whole, the indies do a better job than the big guys. That is just demonstrably wrong.

I'm sad to hear this, because I've had overwhelmingly better luck with indies versus of the top five's ebooks, to the degree that I avoid buying the latter.

I hope my luck continues to be excellent, then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjtorres

As promised, Konrath is taking on the Publishers Guild today:

http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2015/0...-nonsense.html

Not as much fun but a fair amount of deserved scorn.

I find Konrath was in better form here than versus the Author's United, where he might have went a little too heavy with the insults. I know it makes for a more entertaining read, but I'd rather true discussion take place than amusing but useless inflammatory takedowns.

fjtorres · 07-15-2015, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardcastle

I find Konrath was in better form here than versus the Author's United, where he might have went a little too heavy with the insults. I know it makes for a more entertaining read, but I'd rather true discussion take place than amusing but useless inflammatory takedowns.

Think of it as a matter of proportionality.
The Guild's semi-new administration is merely spineless and technologically clueless.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20...y-amazon.shtml

Preston and company are self-important twits and more than a bit mean spirited.
Try this:
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20...22088129.shtml

Quote:

So, what's a bigger sense of entitlement? The one where your customers tell you that you've priced something too high and that they're going to spend their money with others who are offering something at a price point they like? Or the one where you insist that books have to be priced high because you want them to be priced high? I'd argue it's the latter...

You have a millionaire with a "writer's shack" retreat in Maine, all 300 acres of it, complaining that Amazon promoting indie titles instead of his is effectively a crime against humanity, $100,000 on meaningless newspaper ads, when he cut out that money into literacy programs, supporting libraries or whatever cause his in-crowd favors.
Instead, he (and his gang of fools) rails against a channel that is letting thousands of authors make mortgage money, car payments, put their kids through school money. No amount of mockery is enough reward for that crew.

The Guild complains about all the authors getting shafted by the BPHs... and then turns around and supports this mean-spirited crusade against the only viable alternative to poverty many authors have?

He went easy on them.

ZodWallop · 07-15-2015, 02:20 PM

When I read

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjtorres

You have a millionaire with a "writer's shack" retreat in Maine, all 300 acres of it, complaining that Amazon promoting indie titles instead of his is effectively a crime against humanity...

I thought "oh no! Please don't tell me Stephen King is involved in this nonsense!"

I guess I should realize he's not the only person in Maine.

AnemicOak · 07-15-2015, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

When I read

I thought "oh no! Please don't tell me Stephen King is involved in this nonsense!"

I guess I should realize he's not the only person in Maine.

King is indeed one of the AU authors, but the shack in Maine reference is about Douglas Preston.

Here's a (probably not complete) list of AU authors from their letter during the Amazon/Hachette cerfluffle.

Spoiler:

cvkemp · 07-15-2015, 02:24 PM

We all have to make a living and authors are no different. While there are a few authors that make big money, most do not really make a living at what they love to do.

hardcastle · 07-15-2015, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Think of it as a matter of proportionality.
The Guild's semi-new administration is merely spineless and technologically clueless.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20...y-amazon.shtml

Preston and company are self-important twits and more than a bit mean spirited.
Try this:
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20...22088129.shtml

You have a millionaire with a "writer's shack" retreat in Maine, all 300 acres of it, complaining that Amazon promoting indie titles instead of his is effectively a crime against humanity, $100,000 on meaningless newspaper ads, when he cut out that money into literacy programs, supporting libraries or whatever cause his in-crowd favors.
Instead, he (and his gang of fools) rails against a channel that is letting thousands of authors make mortgage money, car payments, put their kids through school money. No amount of mockery is enough reward for that crew.

The Guild complains about all the authors getting shafted by the BPHs... and then turns around and supports this mean-spirited crusade against the only viable alternative to poverty many authors have?

He went easy on them.

It's not a matter of justification. It's attacking the arguments made, not the person making the arguments. Konrath goes for the cheap shot too often, despite not having to. He can destroy each and every point they make without trying, with ample evidence.

I'd happily post around a link to a proper, respectful destruction of each of AG or AU's points, but if I gave Konrath's AU blog post link to friends of mine they'd wonder what this guy is getting so worked up about.

ApK · 07-15-2015, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjtorres

the gold-plated AU gang

Ha! I just got that.

theducks · 07-15-2015, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

King is indeed one of the AU authors, but the shack in Maine reference is about Douglas Preston.

Here's a (probably not complete) list of AU authors from their letter during the Amazon/Hachette cerfluffle.

That is quite a list

I think I have read at least 1 book from all of a Dozen+ of those

(not in my favorite my generes ?)

T

07-15-2015, 08:54 AM	#33
hardcastle Zealot Posts: 138 Karma: 3651501 Join Date: Dec 2013 Device: Kindle Paperwhite 2, Gray Kindle Basic	I haven't seen any reporting done on this outside of the ruckus the usuals have created (Streitfeld and co in their various newspapers). Typically, I prefer reporting, but I think this is good news. The report is absolutely horrendous. What amuses me the most is that everything the report complains about, either it's their fault or it's a good thing. They say: Amazon limited the sale of our books once, redirecting users to others and turning off features like pre-orders! (Actual Quote) "In all, Amazon’s sanctions drove down the sales of these books on Amazon.com by fifty to ninety percent in all formats, according to sales figures obtained by Authors United." I'd say: Because you refused to make an agreement with them to sell your books. What were they supposed to do, take it on good faith you'd still provide the books? I wouldn't trust someone that complains about me so bitterly all the time. This was your own fault, not Amazon's. They say: (Actual Quote) "By the time the Amazon and Hachette settled their dispute eight months later, tens of millions of books that would have otherwise been sold were not." I'd say: Other books sold instead. Create a void, something else fills it. You are not necessary. I'd be more sympathetic to Hachette if they had offered an alternative way for its customers to buy books so that the authors didn't lose out. But they did nothing. They say: Amazon is a monopoly! I'd say: It isn't. It's the market leader, and the preferred choice for many. There's also Apple, Google, Nook, Kobo, Smashwords, Oyster, dozens of DRM-free marketplaces, and more. Why not just double down on those bookstores? Partner with them to bolster their image? They say: Amazon has too much control over the book market! I'd say: And you let them by letting your consumers go there instead of offering a different option for several decades. But even still - it's about golly dang time there was a market leader who attempted to do anything in book market. Take it away from the big five publishers, because they've been driving us into the ground with terrible prices, less and less selection, and a complete lack of digital quality and presence. Sorry if Amazon's busy carving out your market for you. I mean, there's room if you want it, still. They say: Amazon would charge me money to advertise and bolster my book on their pages over their exclusive deals! I'd say: Yeah, that makes sense. It's an exclusive deal, isn't it? Amazon's been defending itself against the big publishers for how many years? It only makes sense they'd want to prioritize their own books over you guys, who seem to love complaining so much and might walk away some day. Or die, like you constantly threaten you might. They say: (Actual quote) "As Amazon extracts an ever larger share of revenue from booksales, the publishers’ shrinking revenue base is already curtailing the diversity and quality of carefully written, well-edited books available to the public." I'd say: As Amazon continues to offer indie authors a better and better deal for striking it out on their own, offering a better royalty and effective advertising deals that no publisher seems willing to negotiate with Amazon or an ad agency, the publishers' shrinking revenue base is already making eBook marketplaces all that sweeter, with flourishing creativity in every genre, allowing every author's voice to be heard. If the book publishers' market plan is unsustainable, so be it. From the consumer's side, there's no negative. When the content is the same, I prefer an indie book over a big publisher book. The indie books are under five dollars, long, well edited, with nice cover art, better typesetting, more eReader features, less typos, and more reader engagement. They'd rather complain to the DOJ and wail about injustice than do basically anything else (up to and including make an actual legal appeal that holds up to the most casual of readers like myself). There's so much more to be done on an aggressive book market push, like better advertising, better contracts for authors, better eBook prices, and perhaps even a new eBook marketplace that provides tangible upgrades for Kindle users. As an appeal to the readers, this letter makes me unsympathetic. I don't love Amazon and I find many faults in them. But I'm given no alternative by the publishers, no juicy new way to read books that makes me want to move away from Amazon. The publishers offer no solution, and they have tried nothing else to prevent their own demise. If they die, they die by their own inaction. Last edited by hardcastle; 07-15-2015 at 09:00 AM.

07-15-2015, 01:20 PM	#37
fjtorres Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,732 Karma: 128354696 Join Date: May 2009 Location: 26 kly from Sgr A* Device: T100TA,PW2,PRS-T1,KT,FireHD 8.9,K2, PB360,BeBook One,Axim51v,TC1000	As promised, Konrath is taking on the Publishers Guild today: http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2015/0...-nonsense.html Not as much fun but a fair amount of deserved scorn. Last edited by fjtorres; 07-15-2015 at 01:26 PM.

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07-15-2015, 01:17 PM	#36
fjtorres Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,732 Karma: 128354696 Join Date: May 2009 Location: 26 kly from Sgr A* Device: T100TA,PW2,PRS-T1,KT,FireHD 8.9,K2, PB360,BeBook One,Axim51v,TC1000	The funny thing is, the more the self-important ones whine, the more transparent their motives become. And the more obvious the impact of Indies. It is very clear that Amazon's most galling crime is offering a level playing field for indie and BPH titles. The fact they promote books to consumers they might want instead of books they're paid to promote. Discounting? They don't complain of B&N discounting. Or Costco discounting even though they get ripped off under deep discount accounting. They don't complain about Apple or Nook or Kobo ebooks. Why? Because those folks play the payola game. They're complaining because the game isn't rigged in their favor anymore. And the more they try to prop up a case against Amazon, the more of themselved they expose.

07-15-2015, 02:24 PM	#42
cvkemp Loving life Posts: 1,430 Karma: 7991496 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Hot Springs Village, Arkansas Device: PaperWhite 6 SE, Fire HD8	We all have to make a living and authors are no different. While there are a few authors that make big money, most do not really make a living at what they love to do.