Why is there no e-ink innovation in the USA?

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Phogg

Is there any other six inch e-ink reader out there with as small a form factor and a gorilla glass screen?

Yes it's a top tier device.

Albeit the weather resistance of the Kobo H2O appeals to me more for my use, the Voyage earned it's accolades honestly.

And there's people who would never touch it because its from Amazon.
The Amazon name is no more an unmixed blessing than Microsoft, Google, or Apple.

Each brand has its strengths and its weaknesses.
Looking only to the strengths of the brand is only half the story.

[murg]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

That does not mean the company must be based in the US. Samsung is a Korean company and they seem to have no problem marketing their devices in the US of A.

Just because you live here and want to be able to purchase devices cheaply does not mean you can only buy from US based manufacturers.

Perhaps a better way to phrase the question is "Why do e-ink innovators avoid the USA market?"

Samsung has a large operation in the US.

For the other off-shore brands, hiring just one person to run their US operations jacks up the cost of their devices. A $50,000 salary, split over how many devices can increase the cost of the devices above what makes them a bargain.

[theducks]

Originally Posted by murg

Samsung has a large operation in the US.

For the other off-shore brands, hiring just one person to run their US operations jacks up the cost of their devices. A $50,000 salary, split over how many devices can increase the cost of the devices above what makes them a bargain.

Murg, you left off the leading 1
Managers at the local (San Jose) Samsung facility make 6 figures easy
The towns public utilities workers start at $75K

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by murg

A $50,000 salary, split over how many devices can increase the cost of the devices above what makes them a bargain.

I don't see how the smartest price to charge is affected by the salaries. If they already are charging an optimum price, and raise it to cover higher salaries, their volume will go down and they'll be worse off.

There's no rule saying they can't charge way more than cost. Apple and Microsoft have that happy (for them) ability. And there's no rule you can't sell below cost:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/13-...ney-2014-11-17

True, you can't sell below cost forever. If supply and demand forces that on you, here's what commonly happens:

http://wolfstreet.com/2015/04/16/ban...-not-just-oil/

If you ask a corporate spokesperson why they raised prices, they are going to say it's because their costs went up. That's because blaming costs is socially acceptable, while charging as much you can, isn't. And if the costs also went up for their direct competitors selling extremely similar products -- say, gasoline -- it might even be true. But I don't buy it for items that strive to stand out from the crowd, like books and gadgets.

[Rizla]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

As Rizla mentioned, E-Ink has been demonstrated to display videos at a reasonable speed, which is why the part of my post you didn't quote said:

Indeed. There is an assumed and widespread misconception not based on reality or personal experience that E-ink can't animate or be used to browse etc. I do it all the time.

I am personally convinced that if a large screen e-ink device that could read and annotate pdfs and be used as a monitor was brought to the market, it would prove profitable. All we need is a DX with Android on it, and keyboard / PC integration built-in. It seems to me that this is a place where the market is failing. It seems to me that the big players are going after the lion-share market segment and are unwilling to take chances in the more marginal (but still potentially profitable) new e-ink areas. Sure, they'd make less with a large, multi-purpose open device, but they'd still make money. That's business, I know, but it's slowing innovation.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Rizla

I am personally convinced that if a large screen e-ink device that could read and annotate pdfs and be used as a monitor was brought to the market, it would prove profitable. All we need is a DX with Android on it, and keyboard / PC integration built-in. It seems to me that this is a place where the market is failing. It seems to me that the big players are going after the lion-share market segment and are unwilling to take chances in the more marginal (but still potentially profitable) new e-ink areas. Sure, they'd make less with a large, multi-purpose open device, but they'd still make money. That's business, I know, but it's slowing innovation.

It's always been the case that niche markets tend to be exploited by small companies rather than large ones: a niche market that would be too small to be worth bothering with for a large company can be a good business opportunity for a small one. You can of course buy an eInk PC monitor such as the one made by DaSung, although Nate's experience thus far suggests that it's perhaps not yet ready for "prime time". See his thread about it in the Lounge forum.

[Rizla]

Originally Posted by disconnected

Doesn't the existence of the Kindle Voyage show that Amazon sees enough of a market for a premium device (especially if we see a Voyage 2 this fall)?

Apparently so. I wish Amazon would do something more innovative with their e-readers. They are willing to try new things, like the Echo, for example. They seem uninterested in innovating in e-ink. Pity, as they dominate. Even the Kindle UI hasn't changed in several generations of Kindles. They seem to have lost interest in innovating e-ink and there is little competition remaining to edge them along.

Maybe they are not bothering to further e-ink innovation because they are building up for a color e-ink release. But I'm not putting money on it. I just think they are uninterested in pushing e-ink innovation. As such, sadly, they are stifling innovation.

I will add that they have been innovative in building an e-book selling platform. I think that's a good thing, and there is no need to change that. It works very well. But we are not seeing hardware innovation. I can see that Amazon doesn't need to alter the hardware to further the already very good vending platform. But for those of us who want to see more exciting and diverse e-ink hardware, it's frustrating.

[Rizla]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Have any of you guys bought asian ereaders throught ebay or Amazon?
Straight from Hong Kong.

Here's one company:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=as_li_ss...AN5NOYCSXQETZY

Free shipping.

Takes a couple weeks at most.
Not overly expensive when shopping isn't free.
(I've found UK to US shipping to be more expensive.)

Ebay?
http://www.ebay.com/sch/iPads-Tablet...w=boyue+t62%2B

Ordering from Hong Kong is not much different than ordering from Amazon UK or buying a reader from the Netherlands.
I've done all three.
No. Big. Deal.

There is no shortage of options.
There is so much commercial activity across the pacific it is cheap and easy.

Welcome to the 21st century.
Very different from the 20th.

Nothing American, though. And nothing over 6". And what if the device is DOA, or fails in warranty. It's going to be a costly and long process dealing with a Chinese seller. These brands are an unknown. They have to very cheap to take those kinds of risks.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Rizla

Maybe they are not bothering to further e-ink innovation because they are building up for a color e-ink release. But I'm not putting money on it.

You may not be putting money on colour epaper displays, but Amazon certainly are. They bought Liquavista, remember. The non-appearance of decent colour epaper screens thus far is, I would suggest, more indicative of the fact that it's a tough nut to crack than that Amazon aren't investing in it.

[murg]

Originally Posted by theducks

Murg, you left off the leading 1
Managers at the local (San Jose) Samsung facility make 6 figures easy
The my towns public utilities workers start at $75K

I deliberately kept the salary low. I figured a single part-time person managing the whole US. Maybe doing the same for another manufacturer/seller.

This seems to be kind of the way that Kobo does Australia.

[murg]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

I don't see how the smartest price to charge is affected by the salaries. If they already are charging an optimum price, and raise it to cover higher salaries, their volume will go down and they'll be worse off.

For an off-brand Chinese manufacturer, with no brand mindspace in the US, the only real advantage is either price or technology. And the technology seems to be very me-too.

So if price is your advantage, doing things which increase the price (by increasing the costs), whittles away at your advantage.

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

There's no rule saying they can't charge way more than cost. Apple and Microsoft have that happy (for them) ability. And there's no rule you can't sell below cost:

Big global corporations can do this, relatively small Chinese manufacturers don't have the deep pockets to fund losses year after year. Nor do the small manufacturers have ebook sales as a second source of income to absorb some of the losses.

[invention13]

I also wonder if e-ink wouldn't be a good display for a smart watch.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by invention13

I also wonder if e-ink wouldn't be a good display for a smart watch.

It's what the Pebble uses.

[ottdmk]

The Pebble doesn't use e-ink. It uses a transflective LCD display made by Sharp. They *do* describe it as "e-paper", which makes any confusion totally understandable.

[invention13]

Actually not. The Pebble uses a low power, high res LCD made by Sharp.