Why have e-readers ditched page turn buttons? - Page 6

DiapDealer · 07-05-2015, 09:56 AM

I find it amusing (and not in a bad way) that ereading has been around long enough for there to be old-school/new school camps among its adherents. The buttons vs "sexy touch screens" comment ironically reminds me of the "real" books vs sexy, new-fangled (but not logical) ebooks debates. So we now have luddite-luddites and technophile-luddites, it seems. I guess technological change is always strongly devisive--even among fairly like-minded demographic groups. Is there a word for that effect, I wonder?

My personal philosophy is that I can't read any more or less efficiently regardless of the device or its features (unless direct download via neural shunt becomes a reality). The pleasure I get from reading cannot be affected by buttons vs touch, or LCD vs eink, dedicated vs multi-purpose. Every device I've ever purchased and/or used to read an ebook has "gone away" within a couple of chapters of the first book read on it. I don't imagine that changing.

In the immortal words of Tripper Harrison: "It just doesn't matter!"

jgaiser · 07-05-2015, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

In the immortal words of Tripper Harrison: "It just doesn't matter!"

Uhhh... Yep...

Geralt · 07-05-2015, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Every device I've ever purchased and/or used to read an ebook has "gone away" within a couple of chapters of the first book read on it. I don't imagine that changing.

I feel the same.

A lot of people on mobileread concentrate more, worry more about the mobile part, than read part.

My 2¢.

Solo1959 · 07-05-2015, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverraven

I love buttons. My thumb hurts if I have to move it too far over to change the page. I like to hole my reader in my left hand.
OK, so they don't want to give us buttons, fine. Could they not at least put page forward on both edges of the reader instead of just the right side? I switch hands out, depending on which side I am laying on. Usually my left, holding it with my left hand.
I'm thinking something like this:
[IMG]

[/IMG]
I very seldom page back, which I am betting is true for most of us. Just slap page back in the middle, make both sides page forward.
Could that be changed with a firmware update?
S

Yes... This. Or can there be an option to configure the touch to the user's preference. (Of course there can be) But I, too, agree 100%.

howyoudoin · 07-05-2015, 11:11 AM

You can set the bottom half/third of the kobo to function as page forward.

theducks · 07-05-2015, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

It's awful, isn't it? Laser printers and inkjet printers just don't make the same delightfully deafening "SCCCRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEECCCCCCHHHHHHH" dragging-fingernails-down-a-blackboard sound that dot matrix printers did. Printing just doesn't seem right without it

.

Personally I have a small blackboard set up alongside my inkjet printer to allow me to re-create that authentic printing experience.

Remember the 'Band Printer' Music era? Blue Danube anyone

(For those who were not around: The letters were on a spinning belt looped the width if the paper. As the letter came into position, a 'hammer' struck the backside. Depending on the area of the letter and repetition, you perceived a tone)

bathos · 07-05-2015, 03:12 PM

My mum has Parkinson's and finds it almost impossible to use a touch screen. I've had to stockpile several spare kindles with buttons because she would struggle to use any of the new kindles.

ebusinesstutor · 07-05-2015, 03:26 PM

I know the topic is ereaders, but Aldiko on Android tablets lets you use the volume up down buttons as a physical page turn button.

barryem · 07-05-2015, 03:28 PM

A lot of reasons are given in this thread and other threads for the demise of buttons and, reading through it, I suspect they're all partly true, but I also wonder if they miss the point. I don't have a bit of insight into what the designers of the various ereaders were thinking but my guess is that touch screens didn't replace buttons at all; that buttons went away because of touch screens.

When I'm reading I make heavy use of the dictionary. I have a decent vocabulary but I'm a diverse reader and a lot of stuff I read is about concepts I don't know well or at all. That always means new words and old words used in new ways, and I love looking them up. I also like that I can look up concepts and facts on wikipedia as I read. I do a lot of that. That's exactly why I have a 3G Kindle. I rarely use the 3G for downloading.

I also use search a lot because I tend to forget character names.

Anyway these things are far, far easier on a touch screen and I think that's why today's ereaders have touch screens. Anybody who had a Kindle 4 probably remembers how painful a process it was to look up a word or do a search or look up a concept. Move the cursor here and there on the pop-up keyboard or to the word you want to look up and then press start select and drag the cursor and then press end select and on and on and if I keep talking about it I'll have nightmares tonight.

Before that, when I had a Kindle Keyboard things were slightly less painful but they still hurt.

I suspect these are the reasons that we have touch screens. And since touch screens are more expensive and ereader prices are now less than they used to be, they left out the also fairly expensive page turn buttons.

I'd be very surprised if touch screens were added to replace the buttons. I think it's probably the other way around.

As for eating while reading, that's a snap! I do it all the time. I just make sure my little finger stays grease-free. Nothing to it.

When I first got my Voyage I experimented with the Page Press and I thought my experiments showed it to work remarkably well. I didn't buy it because of that feature and I didn't expect it to work as well as it does. But when I was reading and not experimenting it just never occurred to me to use them. I've been swiping for so long it's come to seem more natural. After a week or two I turned off Page Press. It just wasn't useful to me.

I think it would be nice if there was a model to suit each taste. One with page turn buttons, one with TTS, one with a larger screen, etc. The problem is that we're cheap. We want cheap devices and the only way they can make them is to subsidize them with book sales. Device manufacturers simply can't compete in ebook readers as they do in tablets. I wish they could. Personally I'd be willing to pay a lot to get the ereader I really want. Probably a lot of people in here would. But we're the devotees. The casual readers; the general public wants cheap ereaders so that's what we get and cheap means less variety.

It's not as bad as it might be. These things really are good. But they could be better, and better for all of us, not just people like me who happen to like what we're getting.

Barry

patrickt · 07-05-2015, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebusinesstutor

I know the topic is ereaders, but Aldiko on Android tablets lets you use the volume up down buttons as a physical page turn button.

So does Kindle for Android with my Nexus 5. I never use it though.

ZodWallop · 07-05-2015, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barryem

I'd be very surprised if touch screens were added to replace the buttons. I think it's probably the other way around.

Barry, one does not have to replace the other. The Nook Simple Touch and Kindle Voyage have both.

As I mentioned before, I will adapt to touch screen only when it's time for a new e-reader.

I really don't get the overblown comparisons being made on here (someone who likes the page turn buttons longs for the days of dot matrix printers, etc), but hey, I guess everyone has fun in their own way.

I do wonder what it says that the high-end e-ink device also has page turn buttons. I guess it means that people willing to spend more on a reader refuse to accept change?

barryem · 07-05-2015, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Barry, one does not have to replace the other.

No, it's not a requirement that if there's a touch screen there's no buttons, but since prices are so low it's natural that they left the buttons out. That was my point, that the touch screen was there to make navigating easier and since it was there it gave them an opportunity to eliminate the buttons and their cost.

Quote:

I do wonder what it says that the high-end e-ink device also has page turn buttons. I guess it means that people willing to spend more on a reader refuse to accept change?

I wonder about this, too. I wonder if one of Amazon's motivations in the Voyage was to answer the constant call for buttons. Or for almost buttons.

I think that kind of backs up my other point, that buttons were eliminated to save money but since a lot of customers ask for them they'll provide them for those willing to pay.

Of course all of this is just my speculation. I have no knowledge or insight into Amazon's reasoning. This just seems like a logical explanation to me.

Barry

Dopedangel · 07-05-2015, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverraven

I love buttons. My thumb hurts if I have to move it too far over to change the page. I like to hole my reader in my left hand.
OK, so they don't want to give us buttons, fine. Could they not at least put page forward on both edges of the reader instead of just the right side? I switch hands out, depending on which side I am laying on. Usually my left, holding it with my left hand.
I'm thinking something like this:
[IMG]

[/IMG]
I very seldom page back, which I am betting is true for most of us. Just slap page back in the middle, make both sides page forward.
Could that be changed with a firmware update?
S

This is my setup on my reader. I use coolreader as my app where you can set 9 different zones to do what you want. I have seen people jailbreak and use koreader on kindles which is a port of coolreader although am not aware if it has the same touch panel options as the original coolreader.

ZodWallop · 07-05-2015, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barryem

the touch screen was there to make navigating easier and since it was there it gave them an opportunity to eliminate the buttons and their cost.

That right there is the real reason page buttons were eliminated. Not because readers are better without them, but because it's cheaper for the manufacturers. That's why I don't get the push back in this thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by barryem

I wonder if one of Amazon's motivations in the Voyage was to answer the constant call for buttons. Or for almost buttons.

Yeah, the Voyage looks like a nice piece of hardware. If there was a version that handled ePub (and had a few gigs for sideloading) I'd buy it. I just don't have the patience to convert all my ePub to work on the Voyage.

eschwartz · 07-05-2015, 10:40 PM

What patience? That is one argument I don't get (and never have).

Select all books, click "convert" in calibre, go to bed for the night.

Next morning -- done.

07-05-2015, 09:56 AM	#76
DiapDealer Grand Sorcerer Posts: 28,587 Karma: 204624552 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD	I find it amusing (and not in a bad way) that ereading has been around long enough for there to be old-school/new school camps among its adherents. The buttons vs "sexy touch screens" comment ironically reminds me of the "real" books vs sexy, new-fangled (but not logical) ebooks debates. So we now have luddite-luddites and technophile-luddites, it seems. I guess technological change is always strongly devisive--even among fairly like-minded demographic groups. Is there a word for that effect, I wonder? My personal philosophy is that I can't read any more or less efficiently regardless of the device or its features (unless direct download via neural shunt becomes a reality). The pleasure I get from reading cannot be affected by buttons vs touch, or LCD vs eink, dedicated vs multi-purpose. Every device I've ever purchased and/or used to read an ebook has "gone away" within a couple of chapters of the first book read on it. I don't imagine that changing. In the immortal words of Tripper Harrison: "It just doesn't matter!" Last edited by DiapDealer; 07-05-2015 at 10:46 AM.

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07-05-2015, 11:11 AM	#80
howyoudoin how YOU doin? Posts: 1,100 Karma: 7371047 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: India Device: Kindle Keyboard, iPad Pro 10.5”, Kobo Aura H2O, Kobo Libra 2	You can set the bottom half/third of the kobo to function as page forward.

07-05-2015, 03:12 PM	#82
bathos Zealot Posts: 135 Karma: 727000 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: UK Device: iPhone XS, iPad Pro, iPad Air 2, kindle Oasis	My mum has Parkinson's and finds it almost impossible to use a touch screen. I've had to stockpile several spare kindles with buttons because she would struggle to use any of the new kindles.

07-05-2015, 03:26 PM	#83
ebusinesstutor Star Gawker Posts: 526 Karma: 6944314 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Spruce Grove, AB Canada Device: Kindle Paperwhite	I know the topic is ereaders, but Aldiko on Android tablets lets you use the volume up down buttons as a physical page turn button.

07-05-2015, 03:28 PM	#84
barryem Wizard Posts: 2,459 Karma: 68781975 Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Arkansas Device: Paperwhite 4	A lot of reasons are given in this thread and other threads for the demise of buttons and, reading through it, I suspect they're all partly true, but I also wonder if they miss the point. I don't have a bit of insight into what the designers of the various ereaders were thinking but my guess is that touch screens didn't replace buttons at all; that buttons went away because of touch screens. When I'm reading I make heavy use of the dictionary. I have a decent vocabulary but I'm a diverse reader and a lot of stuff I read is about concepts I don't know well or at all. That always means new words and old words used in new ways, and I love looking them up. I also like that I can look up concepts and facts on wikipedia as I read. I do a lot of that. That's exactly why I have a 3G Kindle. I rarely use the 3G for downloading. I also use search a lot because I tend to forget character names. Anyway these things are far, far easier on a touch screen and I think that's why today's ereaders have touch screens. Anybody who had a Kindle 4 probably remembers how painful a process it was to look up a word or do a search or look up a concept. Move the cursor here and there on the pop-up keyboard or to the word you want to look up and then press start select and drag the cursor and then press end select and on and on and if I keep talking about it I'll have nightmares tonight. Before that, when I had a Kindle Keyboard things were slightly less painful but they still hurt. I suspect these are the reasons that we have touch screens. And since touch screens are more expensive and ereader prices are now less than they used to be, they left out the also fairly expensive page turn buttons. I'd be very surprised if touch screens were added to replace the buttons. I think it's probably the other way around. As for eating while reading, that's a snap! I do it all the time. I just make sure my little finger stays grease-free. Nothing to it. When I first got my Voyage I experimented with the Page Press and I thought my experiments showed it to work remarkably well. I didn't buy it because of that feature and I didn't expect it to work as well as it does. But when I was reading and not experimenting it just never occurred to me to use them. I've been swiping for so long it's come to seem more natural. After a week or two I turned off Page Press. It just wasn't useful to me. I think it would be nice if there was a model to suit each taste. One with page turn buttons, one with TTS, one with a larger screen, etc. The problem is that we're cheap. We want cheap devices and the only way they can make them is to subsidize them with book sales. Device manufacturers simply can't compete in ebook readers as they do in tablets. I wish they could. Personally I'd be willing to pay a lot to get the ereader I really want. Probably a lot of people in here would. But we're the devotees. The casual readers; the general public wants cheap ereaders so that's what we get and cheap means less variety. It's not as bad as it might be. These things really are good. But they could be better, and better for all of us, not just people like me who happen to like what we're getting. Barry

07-05-2015, 10:40 PM	#90
eschwartz Ex-Helpdesk Junkie Posts: 19,421 Karma: 85400180 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Beaten Path, USA, Roundworld, This Side of Infinity Device: Kindle Touch fw5.3.7 (Wifi only)	What patience? That is one argument I don't get (and never have). Select all books, click "convert" in calibre, go to bed for the night. Next morning -- done.