B&N What Went Wrong & When ? - Page 4

ZodWallop · 06-23-2015, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpegg

Amazon, are you paying attention? Keep your current picturesque garden wall if you must, that may well keep a majority of your customers in, but please don't put up barbed wire that'll only keep the rest of us out.

Amen!

I haven't done much searching on it. Do you know when B&N changed their DRM scheme? At one point, I changed my credit card and that seemed to break my ability to strip DRM. But maybe that was just a coincidence in timing?

AnemicOak · 06-23-2015, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I haven't done much searching on it. Do you know when B&N changed their DRM scheme? At one point, I changed my credit card and that seemed to break my ability to strip DRM. But maybe that was just a coincidence in timing?

You can read a lot about the removal of the download option and DRM changes in this thread...
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=246519

conan50 · 06-24-2015, 05:49 PM

To go "glass half-full" B&N did put pressure on Amazon to up its game, improve its hardware. I still adore my nook Simple Touch, and the nook HD was a nice tablet.
I suspect when/if nook goes completely under, B&N will not want to offend its customers of its brick and mortar stores who also supported nook, so hopefully they will hand off the business and support for books and devices to a responsible party. Also they may surprise us all and put someone in charge who can somehow resurrect the nook business--we can hope.

ZodWallop · 06-25-2015, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conan50

To go "glass half-full" B&N did put pressure on Amazon to up its game, improve its hardware. I still adore my nook Simple Touch, and the nook HD was a nice tablet.

They did, but that was all in the past. With the release of the latest Nook Glowlight, it felt like B&N went from competing with Amazon to just attempting to match them. The Nook Glowlight felt like a clone of the Paperwhite without attempting to up the game in any way.

Reading through these discussions, I get the impression that B&N management is in over their heads.

The tablets were likely their first mistake. They weren't regular Android tablets with the Play store, yet B&N didn't have the ecosystem Amazon did to go their own way. I wonder where they would be if they had focused on e-readers and took more than just the DRM scheme from Fictionwise?

Too bad Microsoft isn't still a partial owner of Nook. They have the clout to set B&N's head straight and they aren't otherwise a direct competitor.

One possible way forward: Partner up with Google. Let Google merge with/consume the B&N web store and have B&N design and sell the Nook hardware, keeping the "read any book in store" feature and having the Nook booth in all their brick and mortar stores.

ZodWallop · 06-25-2015, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

You can read a lot about the removal of the download option and DRM changes in this thread...
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=246519

Thank you so much for that. I have been slowly working my way through that massive thread.

barryem · 06-25-2015, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conan50

To go "glass half-full" B&N did put pressure on Amazon to up its game, improve its hardware. I still adore my nook Simple Touch, and the nook HD was a nice tablet.
I suspect when/if nook goes completely under, B&N will not want to offend its customers of its brick and mortar stores who also supported nook, so hopefully they will hand off the business and support for books and devices to a responsible party. Also they may surprise us all and put someone in charge who can somehow resurrect the nook business--we can hope.

First, I completely agree that B&N and the Nook has been of major importance to us Kindle users. Without competition we wouldn't have it nearly as good as we have it now. I just wish B&N had done a better job because if Amazon loses them they'll only have Kobo. Kobo is good but Amazon needs more than one competitor.

As for B&N handing over Nook support, I wouldn't bet on it. I suspect they'll be around doing it themselves a while longer but if they decide to call it quits that'll be the second time they've done so. They sold ebooks and provided software to read them on Windows computers, or maybe it was even DOS computers, I forget now. They did this for about 3 years, maybe 20 years ago and then they decided to quit.

I got an email notifying me that I had 30 days (I think I remember that correctly) to download my books and then they would no longer be available. I did and not long after I upgraded my computer and I wasn't able to get their software to read their books for my new computer. That was it. It was over.

I really didn't feel too bad about it at the time. I had just bought a few books from them and I'd already read them and I didn't have plans to read them again any time soon. But a lot of people had a lot of books and never did get to read them all.

This is the exact reason I backup my Kindle books today. I don't expect Amazon to go kaput but I have a lot of their books, far more than I've read, and I know anything can happen. I have a lifetime supply of books and I don't want to risk losing it.

Barry

ZodWallop · 06-25-2015, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barryem

As for B&N handing over Nook support, I wouldn't bet on it. I suspect they'll be around doing it themselves a while longer but if they decide to call it quits that'll be the second time they've done so.

I don't think B&N can afford to abandon e-books completely. It's the future and I'm pretty sure they know it. My concern is that they are running their e-book division so badly.

I do think they could afford to abandon the tablet market. I'm not sure what, if anything B&N gets out of it. I supposed if Samsung is running it, it may not be too much of a distraction, except that lackluster sales might be giving the company as a whole a black-eye.

AnemicOak · 06-25-2015, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barryem

They sold ebooks and provided software to read them on Windows computers, or maybe it was even DOS computers, I forget now. They did this for about 3 years, maybe 20 years ago and then they decided to quit.

I got an email notifying me that I had 30 days (I think I remember that correctly) to download my books and then they would no longer be available. I did and not long after I upgraded my computer and I wasn't able to get their software to read their books for my new computer. That was it. It was over.

Amazon did the same thing way back when before Kindle too (2000-2006).

While I won't go so far as to say it won't ever happen again the user base for Nook is much greater than any eBook user base was way back when so I'd say it's much less likely that Nook would simply end without B&N doing at least something. Maybe it'd be transferring stuff to Kobo like Sony & Borders did. Maybe it would be selling off the Nook accounts to some other store that doesn't even exist yet (for example if Walmart expanded Vudu to include books).

conan50 · 06-25-2015, 04:30 PM

For awhile it seemed Google was getting serious about ebooks, but it looks like a back burner project now, which is a shame. My choice would be for them to take over nook, if they would get serious again about ebooks.
But my guess is someone like Samsung, who already makes their tablet, might take over the business. Samsung has to be looking at some new way to expand as they are losing tablet space and may end up losing some of their phone market to other players.

barryem · 06-26-2015, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I don't think B&N can afford to abandon e-books completely. It's the future and I'm pretty sure they know it. My concern is that they are running their e-book division so badly.

I do think they could afford to abandon the tablet market. I'm not sure what, if anything B&N gets out of it. I supposed if Samsung is running it, it may not be too much of a distraction, except that lackluster sales might be giving the company as a whole a black-eye.

I agree that B&N can't afford to abandon ebooks but I'm not confident that they'll see it that way. They can't afford to do as badly as they've done but they have.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not predicting anything at all. I'd like to see something happen to rejuvenate B&N; a buyout, new management or something. I think we need them. I think Amazon needs the competition. And they're big enough and important enough that anything could happen.

Barry

pwalker8 · 06-27-2015, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barryem

I agree that B&N can't afford to abandon ebooks but I'm not confident that they'll see it that way. They can't afford to do as badly as they've done but they have.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not predicting anything at all. I'd like to see something happen to rejuvenate B&N; a buyout, new management or something. I think we need them. I think Amazon needs the competition. And they're big enough and important enough that anything could happen.

Barry

I would be surprised if B&N will rejuvenate, at least as far as ebooks go. They would need to greatly improve both their ebook selection and their ebook store. It will take someone who makes it an order of magnitude easier for me to find books that I want to buy to make me switch.

barryem · 06-27-2015, 09:25 PM

I read an article on one of the ebook blogs today saying that B&N's most profitable area in it's stores these days are toys and some other related items. Maybe they'll transition into a toystore.

I haven't been in a bookstore for years. I moved to rural Arkansas 11 years ago and I don't have a car so I don't have one available. I had no idea they sold toys in the B&N stores now. I don't recall them there when I lived in Houston and I was in them a lot.

Barry

cromag · 06-27-2015, 11:16 PM

The Barnes & Noble in our town added the toy section a few years ago, when they downsized the CD and DVD area. I think they also took some of the area that was devoted to kids' books. I generally get in there once or twice a year, after Christmas and in July, during their clearance sales. I used to go every couple of weeks.

ZodWallop · 06-28-2015, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwalker8

I would be surprised if B&N will rejuvenate, at least as far as ebooks go. They would need to greatly improve both their ebook selection and their ebook store.

The thing is, it doesn't seem like it would be difficult to do. Mostly they need someone with vision to run their e-book division. Or partner with a company willing to do it. That's why I mentioned Google earlier.

On the business side, they need to focus on making their customers happy rather than the big publishers. They don't seem to know what's best for them anyway. Start offering DRM light, watermark only ePubs, release a nice new reader to go with the relaunch. Advertise.

I admit the DRM might be easier said than done.

I have no faith B&N will do this. They seem to have a bunch of brick and mortar solutions to the digital business and that's not working.

pwalker8 · 06-28-2015, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

The thing is, it doesn't seem like it would be difficult to do. Mostly they need someone with vision to run their e-book division. Or partner with a company willing to do it. That's why I mentioned Google earlier.

On the business side, they need to focus on making their customers happy rather than the big publishers. They don't seem to know what's best for them anyway. Start offering DRM light, watermark only ePubs, release a nice new reader to go with the relaunch. Advertise.

I admit the DRM might be easier said than done.

I have no faith B&N will do this. They seem to have a bunch of brick and mortar solutions to the digital business and that's not working.

I really don't think that not have DRM would move the needle for them. Most customers don't care one way or the other about DRM. The music industry went through that experiment when they allowed Amazon to sell DRM free music a year before they let Apple do the same.

Google was trying to scan in every book and make them available, which I consider a good thing. However, they ran into legal issues which pretty much stopped them in their tracks.

I think the music streaming battle is instructive. The two biggest issues that music streaming companies have is getting the multitude of rights holders to allow them to stream the music and getting the price down to a level where they can make money.

06-24-2015, 05:49 PM	#48
conan50 Fanatic Posts: 597 Karma: 14054112 Join Date: Jun 2014 Device: kindle	To go "glass half-full" B&N did put pressure on Amazon to up its game, improve its hardware. I still adore my nook Simple Touch, and the nook HD was a nice tablet. I suspect when/if nook goes completely under, B&N will not want to offend its customers of its brick and mortar stores who also supported nook, so hopefully they will hand off the business and support for books and devices to a responsible party. Also they may surprise us all and put someone in charge who can somehow resurrect the nook business--we can hope.

06-25-2015, 04:30 PM	#54
conan50 Fanatic Posts: 597 Karma: 14054112 Join Date: Jun 2014 Device: kindle	For awhile it seemed Google was getting serious about ebooks, but it looks like a back burner project now, which is a shame. My choice would be for them to take over nook, if they would get serious again about ebooks. But my guess is someone like Samsung, who already makes their tablet, might take over the business. Samsung has to be looking at some new way to expand as they are losing tablet space and may end up losing some of their phone market to other players.

06-27-2015, 09:25 PM	#57
barryem Wizard Posts: 2,459 Karma: 68781975 Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Arkansas Device: Paperwhite 4	I read an article on one of the ebook blogs today saying that B&N's most profitable area in it's stores these days are toys and some other related items. Maybe they'll transition into a toystore. I haven't been in a bookstore for years. I moved to rural Arkansas 11 years ago and I don't have a car so I don't have one available. I had no idea they sold toys in the B&N stores now. I don't recall them there when I lived in Houston and I was in them a lot. Barry

06-27-2015, 11:16 PM	#58
cromag Surfin the alpha waves ~~ Posts: 26,383 Karma: 459765791 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: New Jersey Device: Jetbook Lite & Mini, Nook STR, Kobo, Hanvon N516, Kindle 2, Androids	The Barnes & Noble in our town added the toy section a few years ago, when they downsized the CD and DVD area. I think they also took some of the area that was devoted to kids' books. I generally get in there once or twice a year, after Christmas and in July, during their clearance sales. I used to go every couple of weeks.