How long is a book

jbcohen · 06-17-2015, 08:16 AM

How long must a manuscript be before it is called a book? I am looking for an authoritative group or company to with the answer. Here is a few examples of authoritative companies or groups on this subject: Readers Digest, Ziff Davis, Penguin books, Barns and Nobels or American Book Publishing Association.

The best I have been able to come up with at this point is a magazine called Writer's Digest (WD) says 60K words. While WD is an authoritative source on the issue, I am looking for some one a bit more visiable then WD is.

HarryT · 06-17-2015, 08:20 AM

That's a question that's impossible to answer. A "fine art" coffee-table picture book, for example, might contain only a few thousands words in total, but it's unquestionably a "book".

Had you asked "how many words must a book have to be considered a novel", you might have been able to get a meaningful answer. You could then, for example, look at the categories used by various literary awards for their definitions of "short story", novella", "novel", etc.

"Book" is a production format, not a measurement of length.

shalym · 06-17-2015, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbcohen

How long must a manuscript be before it is called a book? I am looking for an authoritative group or company to with the answer. Here is a few examples of authoritative companies or groups on this subject: Readers Digest, Ziff Davis, Penguin books, Barns and Nobels or American Book Publishing Association.

The best I have been able to come up with at this point is a magazine called Writer's Digest (WD) says 60K words. While WD is an authoritative source on the issue, I am looking for some one a bit more visiable then WD is.

What??? Defining a "book" by the number of words is ludicrous. What about Art books? Children's picture books? Are you saying that those aren't defined as books??

Are you maybe trying to define a novel? Novels can be defined by the number of words, as can novellas, and short stories. I'm not sure how non-fiction is defined--maybe it starts with article and moves up from there?

Shari

Edit to add: Harry said it first, and as always, he said it better

HarryT · 06-17-2015, 08:28 AM

The Hugo awards split it up as follows:

Short story: Less than 7500 words
Novelette: Between 7500 and 17500 words
Novella: Between 17500 and 40000 words
Novel: 40000 words or more

But that is of course not "authoritative" (unless you're wanting to win a Hugo, that is!); it's simply one particular definition that the Hugo committee has chosen.

There is no "authority" in these matters.

murg · 06-17-2015, 09:22 AM

I have a published book without a single word (or image) in it. A couple of hundred pages.

HarryT · 06-17-2015, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murg

I have a published book without a single word (or image) in it. A couple of hundred pages.

What's in it if not words or images?

jbcohen · 06-17-2015, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

The Hugo awards split it up as follows:

Short story: Less than 7500 words
Novelette: Between 7500 and 17500 words
Novella: Between 17500 and 40000 words
Novel: 40000 words or more

But that is of course not "authoritative" (unless you're wanting to win a Hugo, that is!); it's simply one particular definition that the Hugo committee has chosen.

There is no "authority" in these matters.

Perhaps Harry is right: How long must a manuscript be before its a book? I will go with the Hugo Awards, since they are a well recognized group that deals with this issue. They are a bit better an authority then writer's digest is.

MikeB1972 · 06-17-2015, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

What's in it if not words or images?

Probably this

http://www.amazon.co.uk/What-Every-T...Apart+From+Sex

crich70 · 06-17-2015, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeB1972

Probably this

http://www.amazon.co.uk/What-Every-T...Apart+From+Sex

So what about equal time by publishing a book with.what women think about besides it?

MikeB1972 · 06-17-2015, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crich70

So what about equal time by publishing a book with.what women think about besides it?

They just go here instead
http://www.manoloblahnik.com/

HarryT · 06-17-2015, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbcohen

Perhaps Harry is right: How long must a manuscript be before its a book? I will go with the Hugo Awards, since they are a well recognized group that deals with this issue. They are a bit better an authority then writer's digest is.

No, you're still asking a nonsensical question. "Book" is not a word which is in any way dependent on length. If you mean "How long must a manuscript be before it's a novel?", then please ask that question.

murg · 06-17-2015, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

What's in it if not words or images?

Nothing.

PeterT · 06-17-2015, 07:08 PM

How long is a piece of string?

rkomar · 06-17-2015, 07:17 PM

I think a book used to be physical thing (pages bound together). You could have written books, scrap books, diaries, notebooks, pop-up books, cheque books, coupon books, even those books used for hiding stuff inside the hollowed out pages. Since the meaning has drifted to refer to the contents of what's in the book, there's confusion now. As Harry says, it's best to refer to the contents as novel, novelette, short stories,...

Atunah · 06-17-2015, 08:01 PM

I think its because many of us grew up with paper books, bookstores and libraries so we have this thing about what a book is. I know I do. I don't consider a short a book for example, I consider it a short. Once its in a anthology or a collection, the I consider it a book. A book for me is more than 200 pages. I mean look at the harlequin category booklets at the checkouts, those are just under 200 pages. No clue what that is in words but I think their submissions are in the 50,000 for the categories and a bit longer for some lines like historical and super romance.

I don't think I'll ever change my view on that. I haven't changed my view on that once I started reading ebooks. A book is still a book to me.

Now what will happen in the future with kids that grow up with mostly digital reading material? No clue. But for now, a book is a book, a short is a short and novella is a novella.

06-17-2015, 08:16 AM	#1
jbcohen Wizard Posts: 3,032 Karma: 11196738 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Where am I? Device: Kindle Paperwhite Signature edition and a Samsung S24 Ultra	How long is a book How long must a manuscript be before it is called a book? I am looking for an authoritative group or company to with the answer. Here is a few examples of authoritative companies or groups on this subject: Readers Digest, Ziff Davis, Penguin books, Barns and Nobels or American Book Publishing Association. The best I have been able to come up with at this point is a magazine called Writer's Digest (WD) says 60K words. While WD is an authoritative source on the issue, I am looking for some one a bit more visiable then WD is.

06-17-2015, 08:20 AM	#2
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	That's a question that's impossible to answer. A "fine art" coffee-table picture book, for example, might contain only a few thousands words in total, but it's unquestionably a "book". Had you asked "how many words must a book have to be considered a novel", you might have been able to get a meaningful answer. You could then, for example, look at the categories used by various literary awards for their definitions of "short story", novella", "novel", etc. "Book" is a production format, not a measurement of length. Last edited by HarryT; 06-17-2015 at 08:22 AM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
How long since you have been in a book store - version 2	jbcohen	General Discussions	33	04-05-2012 10:21 AM
Making a Book Long Enough	MV64	Writers' Corner	13	08-27-2011 04:36 PM
How long do UK book samples take to arrive?	honeyrose	Amazon Kindle	9	01-31-2011 10:07 AM
How long is a book sample?	Pingu	Amazon Kindle	11	11-20-2010 10:01 AM
How long did it take before you bought your first book	andre66	General Discussions	27	10-04-2010 04:44 PM

06-17-2015, 08:28 AM	#4
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	The Hugo awards split it up as follows: Short story: Less than 7500 words Novelette: Between 7500 and 17500 words Novella: Between 17500 and 40000 words Novel: 40000 words or more But that is of course not "authoritative" (unless you're wanting to win a Hugo, that is!); it's simply one particular definition that the Hugo committee has chosen. There is no "authority" in these matters.

06-17-2015, 09:22 AM	#5
murg No Comment Posts: 3,240 Karma: 23878043 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Australia Device: Kobo: Not just an eReader, it's an adventure!	I have a published book without a single word (or image) in it. A couple of hundred pages.

06-17-2015, 07:08 PM	#13
PeterT Grand Sorcerer Posts: 13,511 Karma: 78910202 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Toronto Device: Libra H2O, Libra Colour	How long is a piece of string?

06-17-2015, 07:17 PM	#14
rkomar Wizard Posts: 3,054 Karma: 18821071 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Sudbury, ON, Canada Device: PRS-505, PB 902, PRS-T1, PB 623, PB 840, PB 633	I think a book used to be physical thing (pages bound together). You could have written books, scrap books, diaries, notebooks, pop-up books, cheque books, coupon books, even those books used for hiding stuff inside the hollowed out pages. Since the meaning has drifted to refer to the contents of what's in the book, there's confusion now. As Harry says, it's best to refer to the contents as novel, novelette, short stories,...

06-17-2015, 08:01 PM	#15
Atunah Wizard Posts: 1,817 Karma: 23400001 Join Date: May 2012 Location: USA Device: K1/K3/BasicK Voyage/Oasis1/Oasis3	I think its because many of us grew up with paper books, bookstores and libraries so we have this thing about what a book is. I know I do. I don't consider a short a book for example, I consider it a short. Once its in a anthology or a collection, the I consider it a book. A book for me is more than 200 pages. I mean look at the harlequin category booklets at the checkouts, those are just under 200 pages. No clue what that is in words but I think their submissions are in the 50,000 for the categories and a bit longer for some lines like historical and super romance. I don't think I'll ever change my view on that. I haven't changed my view on that once I started reading ebooks. A book is still a book to me. Now what will happen in the future with kids that grow up with mostly digital reading material? No clue. But for now, a book is a book, a short is a short and novella is a novella.