Ursula K. Le Guin: “I keep Asking You Not to Buy Books from Amazon”

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by tompe

Did people read the article at all? Of course the consequence of getting people used to mediocre books will be that it will be harder to find (if they exist at all) very good books. And she is not talking about literary books.

She never, in this article, says what books she is against. I haven't read many of her past articles, but no one here has mentioned some book she railed against in the past. And two of the three authors she praises (Skloot, O'Brian, Tolkien) would generally be seen as genre writers.

So why this idea that she's an elitist?

Originally Posted by murg

Are you talking about the publishers here?

Me personally? I do like reading the big five product. As for how they treat their worker bees, and their authors, obviously it varies, and I'm pretty sure the big publisher median pay per hour is more than Amazon's.

But it isn't about me.

Le Guin talks about the big publishers. She's against them. The last third of her article dumps the big publishers in the same bucket with Amazon.

And she may be even more against Google:

http://www.theguardian.com/books/200...ors-guild-deal

Her theme isn't elitism. It's anti-capitalism. If Le Guin was participating in this thread, she'd likely say that, and be correct.

[FizzyWater]

Originally Posted by Rizla

What the hell is "mommy porn" and does amazon sell it?

I first heard the term applied to "Fifty Shades of Gray" and the followup books when they became bestsellers.

Since then, I've seen it applied to any form of romance writing, but I think it's meant to be used for romance novels with a strong (and kinky) sexual content.

It's usually used in a derogatory context, although I suppose that's pretty obvious. It's an extension of the stereotype that all romance readers are overweight, middle-aged women who can only get their love (or lust) from the covers of a book and box of chocolates.

[Barcey]

Originally Posted by Rizla

What the hell is "mommy porn" and does amazon sell it?

Of course they do. If I recall correctly Bezos said that his goal for the Kindle was to deliver any book, anywhere in the world in under a minute. He didn't exclude mommy porn.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...=search-action

Mommy Porn is a sub-genre of erotica that grew out of the mainstream success of E.L. James' erotic novel 'Fifty Shades of Grey.' Characterized by its perceived audience and elegant description of female sexual domination, Mommy Porn first gained popularity with mom's over thirty years old before it quickly spread to a worldwide audience.

The characteristics that define Mommy Porn are: Its focus on female sexual fantasy; The introduction of an innocent female protagonist to an unimagined world of sex; A controlling, alpha male love interest; and its detailed description of sex without using graphic words.
Reading mommy porn makes me realize what my life could have been like if I met a hot dominant billionaire instead of my husband.

[darryl]

Originally Posted by tompe

Did people read the article at all? Of course the consequence of getting people used to mediocre books will be that it will be harder to find (if they exist at all) very good books. And she is not talking about literary books.

To me is seems that people in this thread has gotten used to books that are not particular good and now need to protect themselves from realizing that or need to rationalize their behavior. So we are in this thread seeing one of the negative consequences she is fearing.

Yes. You are right. I did get used to books that were not particularly good. I got used to such books well before Amazon came on to the scene. I find that I am reading no more "npg" books now than when the Big Publishers were in charge of "curating". There is, of course, much more being published now, and some of it really is terrible. I think if you downloaded 1000 books at random there would probably be a little more absolute garbage than there used to be. But, of course, we don't download books at random. We pick the books we think we might wish to read. And, of course, we have many tools to help us, including samples where we are doubtful.

[basschick]

some books now considered classics and literature weren't considered to be either when they were popular. if someone had decided that they were "only" popular reading and had kept them from being sold, we wouldn't now be able to read them and point out how vastly superior they are to the hoi polloi of current popular novels.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by basschick

some books now considered classics and literature weren't considered to be either when they were popular. if someone had decided that they were "only" popular reading and had kept them from being sold, we wouldn't now be able to read them and point out how vastly superior they are to the hoi polloi of current popular novels.

Yes, and the bestsellers financed taking more risks which gave us a lot of superior novels.

But that article did not say that popular was bad. It made that point that badly written books that still sell a lot is bad.

And historically I do not know if we really had actual popular books that sold a lot and was badly written. They seem to have become much more common the last 30 years and very much more common the last 5-10 years.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by tompe

And historically I do not know if we really had actual popular books that sold a lot and was badly written. They seem to have become much more common the last 30 years and very much more common the last 5-10 years.

"Badly written" is of course, a subjective opinion; so your claim can never be substantiated. But the fact of the matter is: the more popular a particular book becomes, the harder it becomes to claim it was "badly written." Contrary to those who believe their particular taste in writing somehow objectively defines "good writing," people (except in the rarest of bandwagon exceptions) don't flock to buy/read "badly written" books. And they certainly don't continue reading writing they don't enjoy (cue posts with contentious ideas about how "enjoyment" has little to do with "good" writing).

But I guess it's much easier to imagine conspiracies bent to kill "good writing" than it is to accept that people just don't appreciate as much, that which used to pass for good writing in your (mostly imagined) halcyon days of writery and readery greatness.

[kennyc]

I love her fiction and this too seems very much a figment of her imagination. I'm going to keep on welcoming the future and buying books from amazon, e-books, used and new paper books. Long Live Literature!

[mr ploppy]

I'm proud to be playing my part in the destruction of literature.

[Phogg]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

"Badly written" is of course, a subjective opinion; so your claim can never be substantiated. But the fact of the matter is: the more popular a particular book becomes, the harder it becomes to claim it was "badly written." Contrary to those who believe their particular taste in writing somehow objectively defines "good writing," people (except in the rarest of bandwagon exceptions) don't flock to buy/read "badly written" books. And they certainly don't continue reading writing they don't enjoy (cue posts with contentious ideas about how "enjoyment" has little to do with "good" writing).

But I guess it's much easier to imagine conspiracies bent to kill "good writing" than it is to accept that people just don't appreciate as much, that which used to pass for good writing in your (mostly imagined) halcyon days of writery and readery greatness.

*cough* Fifty Shades Of Gray *cough*

[tompe]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

"Badly written" is of course, a subjective opinion; .

Well, no. If you can propose easy enhancement that makes it much better according to everybody then it was badly written. You are confusing the skill to recognize badly written things with its existence.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by tompe

Well, no. If you can propose easy enhancement that makes it much better according to everybody then it was badly written..

Yeah, good luck with that (the "much better according to everybody" part).

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Phogg

*cough* Fifty Shades Of Gray *cough*

Falls under the "rarest of bandwagon exception" exception.

[Terisa de morgan]

Originally Posted by Phogg

*cough* Fifty Shades Of Gray *cough*

DaVinci Code or James Bond novels, are all of them the best written books in literature. But wait, they are not for porn mommys, so no problem...

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Terisa de morgan

DaVinci Code or James Bond novels, are all of them the best written books in literature. But wait, they are not for porn mommys, so no problem...

Except for the last James Bond books the books are not badly written at least.

From the discussion about the Da Vinci code when it was published it seems to be a good example of a badly written book that became a bestseller.