Windows 10 - free upgrade to those with PC using Windows 7 or 8

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

You know what I want, under Windows? And I have been screaming that since using Linux the first time in 2001. I want Microsoft to give manufacturers and users to tie programs into Windows update, the same way as it is with MS Office.

Then Windows Windows update would get the latest update for each program at the official update site and install it automatically.

Another addition would need to be an install / de-install queue to start multiple installations and de-installations, with all needed prompts up front (if any are needed).

Maybe the Windows 10 Market will bring this possibility, finally, and I'd welcome it, as long as it is optional, so programs can run on older Windows versions without this capability, or newer ones were it might be incompatible.

Very likely.
The XBOX ecosystem works that way: no matter where or how you buy the game, XBL will deliver (and *require*) updates.

Originally Posted by ApK

I'm with you both Those times are no exaggeration.

That Linux distribution is probably less than 6 months old. Windows 8.1 is over a year and a half old, and Windows 7 is over five and a half years old. Of course Linux is going to have fewer updates to deal with, so it's hardly fair to place the blame on Windows.

The actual update process though, hopefully Microsoft has fixed that in Windows 10. Even a comparably old Linux distribution would have faster update process, simply because the packages serve as the basis for an update so it doesn't have to worry about one update being a dependency for another update. On top of that, all of the updates can be applied to an active system. That results in the sometimes required reboot being identical to a regular reboot.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

That Linux distribution is probably less than 6 months old. Windows 8.1 is over a year and a half old, and Windows 7 is over five and a half years old. Of course Linux is going to have fewer updates to deal with, so it's hardly fair to place the blame on Windows.

I'd argue that the fact that there ARE recently updated Linux distros to install, while Windows requires patching a years-old base image, is reason enough to place the blame on Windows.

But also, Linux seems to tend toward updating packages with the latest versions, and the package managers seem to know what dependencies need to be changed the first pass through.
Windows tends to stack update upon update (cumulative rollups and SPs are few and far between.)
I doubt the difference in age accounts for most of that time difference.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I believe the Windows app store, introduced in Windows 8, does do this (or something essentially equivalent, at least).

I know it does for Metro apps. I want it for desktop apps as well (even if they're not in the market), with each app having a capability to automatically install updates, ask for installation, or to disable updates.

[fjtorres]

Here's a breakdown of what qualifies for the free upgrade;
http://www.zdnet.com/article/windows...tag=TREc64629f

Basically, any hardware that shipped with Win7 or higher or was legally upgraded to Win 7 or higher.

Which operating system was preinstalled on your PC?

Most brand-name PCs are sold with an operating system, typically the most recent version of Windows available when the PC was built or, in the case of a Mac, the latest version of OS X. If you built the PC yourself or purchased it from a local shop, you might have bought a so-called naked PC, one with no operating system.

Microsoft says you can get a Windows 10 upgrade for free if you have a proper license for Windows 7 Service Pack 1 or Windows 8.1 and you claim the free upgrade within one year of the launch of Windows 10.

For Windows devices, you can look for a sticker on the side or bottom of the device (for a portable PC it's sometimes hidden in a battery compartment or attached to the power supply). You can also check the paperwork or the manufacturer's specs for the specific model you're looking at.

Eligible for a free upgrade

Windows 7 Service Pack 1 is required before you can upgrade using Windows Update. But all PCs sold with Windows 7, even pre-SP1, qualify for the upgrade.

Windows 8 You must first upgrade to Windows 8.1 (free in the Windows Store) and then install the free Windows 8.1 Update from. After that's complete, you're eligible for the free Windows 10 upgrade.

Windows 8.1 You can upgrade to Windows 10 from Windows Update.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

There is another point that many computer enthusiasts often miss, especially with regard to printers and camera's. 'Normal' people often buy a printer or camera because it can do some "special" stuff, such as print onto CD's, create calendars, or photo-albums, or whatever. The catch is, you need the manufacturer's software to do this if you want wizards and automatic stuff and templates and all that. This software is available for Windows and Mac only, most of the time; sometimes not even for Mac.

Believe it or not, but there are a lot of people who *WANT* to use the manufacturer's software (or even need to, because they don't have anything else), and when running Linux, they'll hit a brick wall.

*After the Ubuntu setup wizard...*

"OK, nice. The test page works. Now where is my calendar creation program mentioned on the box? Hm. Maybe it's on the CD."

*Pops in CD*
*Double-clicks setup.exe*

*** ERROR ***

* Hear a cry of despair and a dying wail as the user flings himself and the computer out of a fifth story apartment window *

That is very true, and as you observed, that may very well be a problem on OSX as well. My point remains, which is that it is either uninformed or disingenuous for the post I replied to to indicate that "linux has driver problems" for this reason.
It is also either unobservant or disingenuous to keep on trying to tell people that you need to go with the OS that enjoys support for the applications you need... when they keep on trying to explain that they agree with you already (and incidentally always have).

Once again -- "this software doesn't support linux" is a valid complaint, and is also very different from essentially "linux doesn't work".


Although I have to say, I don't think your average printer-bundled OCR/calendar/album/cd-print/whatever programs are going to be very good compared to the dedicated programs that already exist, some of which are available for linux.
Whether the average luddite thinks they need the brand that came with the printer is of course another story entirely.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by shalym

Ahh...but see, the people that I'm talking about are the ones who never really learned how to use Windows or DOS, either. They just want to pop in the disc (or click on a link) and do what they need to do. They don't WANT to learn how things work--they just want it to work without HAVING to know how it works.

Shari

Originally Posted by HarryT

Which is a perfectly reasonable expectation. I don't know (or care) how my car works - I just want to get in it and drive it. The days when you had to be a mechanic to own a car are long gone; PCs should be a sufficiently mature product by now for the same to be true of them, too.

And linux is, or can be, if you use the prepackaged configuration tools supplied by the most popular end-user distributions.
Rather than being conditioned by windows to expect that the path involves plugging in a CD and running "the software", linux expects you to find the software in the software center, or preinstalled.
But I suppose many people give up when the disk doesn't have the software (again, because it is already installed).


And as I said above, I have had to help people install printers on Windows, because as a user who doesn't care about how the computer works (it should just work on its own)... they were challenged and threatened by the need to plug things in and install software that isn't already a desktop shortcut -- and they gave up and called me instead.
Just popping in a disk is still a high bar, for the people who cannot figure out a point-and-click configuration wizard (which says "click here to search for printers" ).

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

You got me there; this is one of the things I detest on Windows.

Windows:
New install, update, reboot, update, reboot, update, reboot, update, reboot...

* 6 hours later *

Install driver... reboot... repeat 7 times or so
Install program... (possibly reboot)... repeat ad infinitum

* Another 8 hours later *

Shit I'm tired...

Linux:
New install
apt-get update && apt-get upgrade (and/or dist-upgrade if required)

* 20 minutes later *

apt-get install firefox thunderbird gimp inkscape.... <enter>

Then get some coffee and read a book

Err... why are you ignoring the very real benefits of using linux?

Do both in one command.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

That Linux distribution is probably less than 6 months old. Windows 8.1 is over a year and a half old, and Windows 7 is over five and a half years old. Of course Linux is going to have fewer updates to deal with, so it's hardly fair to place the blame on Windows.

The actual update process though, hopefully Microsoft has fixed that in Windows 10. Even a comparably old Linux distribution would have faster update process, simply because the packages serve as the basis for an update so it doesn't have to worry about one update being a dependency for another update. On top of that, all of the updates can be applied to an active system. That results in the sometimes required reboot being identical to a regular reboot.

I would argue the primary difference is that:

• Windows prefers to download and install all updates that ever happened, one after the other, resulting in updating the same program multiple times.
• linux just reinstalls with the latest version. Something that goes for the base OS as well as the software on top.

Hey, every third-party software developer on Windows has figured out how to upgrade directly to the latest version (assuming the application handles auto-updating). Why can't MS figure it out too?

[Katsunami]

Microsoft should never have abandoned the service packs.

Windows 10 is being said to be supported forever: the last and final Windows, to become a rolling telease, updated as long as the computer it is installed on is in use. Well, if they don't offer fully updated ISO's (they quit doing this in Febuary 2015), I fear to install the RTM version of Windows 10 in 2023.... Or worse, Windows 8 RTM, to be updated to 8.1 to 10. See you in a year...

[JSWolf]

Windows just works and it's not full of dependency issues.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

apt-get install firefox thunderbird gimp inkscape.... <enter>

Then get some coffee and read a book

And then not realize you don't have the latest version and are some number of versions from the latest.

[murg]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

You know what I want, under Windows? And I have been screaming that since using Linux the first time in 2001. I want Microsoft to give manufacturers and users to tie programs into Windows update, the same way as it is with MS Office.

Then Windows Windows update would get the latest update for each program at the official update site and install it automatically.

This is exactly what I don't want.

Adobe would be installing the Google browser bar automatically, over and over again.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

And then not realize you don't have the latest version and are some number of versions from the latest.

How often do people use the latest software, and right after it's release? For free software and paid shareware (which provides free upgrades) I can see this happening. As for commercial software, well let's just say that this is probably why Microsoft is offering a free upgrade for Windows 7/8.x users. (It probably partially explains why they aren't offering free updates for XP/Vista users, since these people wouldn't be buying their latest software offerings anyhow.)

As for using older open source software because that is what's packaged for a distribution, I can certainly see how that's frustrating. It is an issue when hardware support is involved, e.g. being calibre, but it is rarely an issue otherwise.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

How often do people use the latest software, and right after it's release? For free software and paid shareware (which provides free upgrades) I can see this happening. As for commercial software, well let's just say that this is probably why Microsoft is offering a free upgrade for Windows 7/8.x users. (It probably partially explains why they aren't offering free updates for XP/Vista users, since these people wouldn't be buying their latest software offerings anyhow.)

As for using older open source software because that is what's packaged for a distribution, I can certainly see how that's frustrating. It is an issue when hardware support is involved, e.g. being calibre, but it is rarely an issue otherwise.

It can be an issue when you want the latest version yet the repository gives you some obsolete version. Linkux can be that way a lot of the time,.