Anonymity in Best Novel MobileRead Polls

[AnotherCat]

Originally Posted by Catlady

In all this verbiage, I seen nothing at all to suggest a reason for the names of the voters in the poll to be public. Nothing at all.

Over quite a number of non-MR forums I have never seen any good reason advanced as to why a forum poll should be public and in my experience they are generally not public (and the demand is that they be non-public). I have to wonder why there is a desire for publicity.

Originally Posted by Catlady

And, once again, I will not vote in a public poll.

I also never vote in forum public polls. In my case it is nothing to do with wider internet privacy issues but all to do with managing the extent of one's exposure to the locally disaffected.

If I were to vote in a non-public poll, then if someone wished to know if and how I voted they could always ask me; whether they got told or not would depend on my knowledge of the demeanor of the person asking. However, I would be surprised if even one or two ever did ask, if indeed anyone did at all (I have never been asked after private polls in non MR forums in which I have been more active than these ones); which then gets back to what is it that is driving the desire of some for publicity?

So Catlady I hope you feel you are not so alone now. I will not be voting either.

[Lynx-lynx]

It seems there are some potential participants in the vote who are: in favour of an open ballot, indifferent to the type of ballot, and against an open ballot and want a secret ballot.

So, if the poll is a 'secret ballot' that is then likely to disaffect those who would prefer an open ballot, and vice versa* .....

Suggestions?

(*Should the ballot be 'secret' then one answer is for those who wanted an open ballot to say that they will now refrain from voting. But that would be childish, eh.)

[mandy314]

Somehow I see a good thing disintegrating slowly. Perhaps pdurrant can state his rationale for choosing a non-anonymous poll more clearly? Could be a good reason lurking in the background I don't see at the moment. (BTW - MR will know who voted what anyway ) The additional surveys I don't like personally.

Back to the literature. Except for "Wind in the Willows" (dimly remembered) I missed out on all the children/ya books. In my youth those weren't part of the canon in Germany. Can a children/ya book be the best of the decade - yes of course imho. Perhaps such a win would be fitting for the "childhood" of the 20th century - grimmer decades will follow shortly.

My vote goes to Nostromo. Wait a moment. No - haven't been hit by lightning. There you are.

[Lynx-lynx]

My reasons for considering that an open ballot is appropriate for voting in the 'Best Fiction Book of 1901-1910'.

This vote is about identifying a book that I want to vote as my 'best' book for a given period. Prior to voting I will have determined what 'best' means to me.

This vote is a bit of fluff, a bit of fun. It is not a serious issue, it's about voting for a book.

I have already offered 10 books, one for each of the 10 voting periods, as my nominations. They are not posted without my avatar name, anyone can see that I nominated them. I may even have posted comments on one or more of the books that I mentioned or someone else mentioned.

Elsewhere on MR I post my views on all sundry issues, my views are openly posted. As are the views of the majority (?) of posters in the Best Books threads.

The reasons why a 'secret' poll might be necessary is if the subject matter was a particularly divisive issue, or required a conscience vote. This best book vote is neither divisive nor is a conscience vote required. It's about voting for a book.

It beats me why a person would be concerned why someone would be worried about anyone else knowing about a book they voted on, unless of course they took this whole bit of fun out of context and decided it was far more serious than it is.

[Lynx-lynx]

Originally Posted by mandy314

Somehow I see a good thing disintegrating slowly. Perhaps pdurrant can state his rationale for choosing a non-anonymous poll more clearly? Could be a good reason lurking in the background I don't see at the moment. (BTW - MR will know who voted what anyway ) The additional surveys I don't like personally.

Back to the literature. Except for "Wind in the Willows" (dimly remembered) I missed out on all the children/ya books. In my youth those weren't part of the canon in Germany. Can a children/ya book be the best of the decade - yes of course imho. Perhaps such a win would be fitting for the "childhood" of the 20th century - grimmer decades will follow shortly.

My vote goes to Nostromo. Wait a moment. No - haven't been hit by lightning. There you are.

Mandy, I'm not sure if you're saying that you'd prefer a non-anonymous poll?

If so, you've posted how you are going to/already have voted ...

(Which I have no problems with, I'm just checking whether you meant to.)

[mandy314]

@lynx-lynx

Things aren't black or white I think.

I'm all for the principle of "data austerity" to protect privacy - ie only data necessary for the task at hand should be collected and processed. I must confess that at first I assumed a technical reason for having a non-anonymous poll. An argument PRO non-anonymous poll I can't see in pdurrant's or your posts - I'm afraid. To follow the principle would have the benefit to get members voting who may abstain otherwise. So yes - I would prefer an anonymous poll.

For the 1901-1910 poll I personally see no problem with stating my preferences and vote - I do this freely. Another decade, different books (think about "Satanic Verses" could have made the nomination) my decision may be different.

I remember "general" discussions about privacy on MR - perhaps there should be a new one. Let's this be a place to discuss "best" books.

[gmw]

It's a shame the objections to an open vote weren't brought up earlier, but I guess that can't be helped. I can certainly understand why people might object to open votes in some situations ... but these ones? Isn't a vote for your favourite/best book simply a recommendation? What's the difference between a vote on these versus a post saying "Hey, I really enjoyed book x?" ... Of course, maybe those objecting have never made such a post.

The reason why I'd like this to be an open vote is that I have been intending to treat the results much like I treat any other book recommendations on this forum. Having been here for a while, I know whose tastes seem most compatible with my own, so their votes for a particular book have more significance to me than others. The anonymous totals, for me, will have little more than a minor curiosity value.

[John F]

.....

[pdurrant]

I am sorry that a side issue has distracted from the discussion of the nominated books. I am clearly not going to be able to please everyone, but to try to get as many people participating as possible, I have decided to make the voting threads anonymous.

Of course, people are welcome to make their voting intentions known in this discussion thread, if they wish. Which may be better, as then they can talk about why they've chosen a particular book, if they so wish.

[sun surfer]

Well, it seems I've missed the anonymity hubbub and resolution but as I haven't seen these points raised, I still wanted to post.

Originally Posted by Catlady

...I seen nothing at all to suggest a reason for the names of the voters in the poll to be public. Nothing at all...

Then let me help. There are two major reasons I prefer public voting, use it in the lit club and wish it had been used here despite any objections.

First, since I know many of the posters - some well, some only vaguely - I like to know who voted for what. Yes, people can post what they voted for; however, that information is spread across a thread and harder to find and only some people post. With a public poll, in one page you can easily look at who voted for what. This isn't important only for posters I may take a recommendation from but also the opposite - I'd like to know what posters whose tastes I don't agree with voted for.

That, however, is only small fry compared to the second reason. With anonymous voting comes the prospect that the vote can be ruined by sock puppets and no one would be the wiser. And not only sock puppets, but just any mischievous non-sock-puppet posters who want to have a laugh and vote for x knowing that no one will know they did. With public voting, it's all out in the open. If there are any suspicious votes, they are public to view so that we can make our own assumptions about how worthy that vote is. Mobileread for the most part is a better forum than most with more intelligent and mature posters but it's not immune from these sorts of things and with what will probably be a relatively small voter turn-out (it will probably not be getting thousands of votes in each poll like other anonymous online polls) and possible extremely close vote margins, each vote is important.

Surely, if one is worried about the less savoury dark aspects of the internet then there is a stronger case for public voting here than anonymous voting. Paul is attempting something on a pretty large scale for MR as it's turned out, and putting a lot of work into this and so I'm hoping it goes as well as possible. For the majority of us I think it would be more enjoyable to have public voting, and I would rather risk a small minority not voting in the poll because they don't want to reveal what they voted for rather than risk the very easy and completely undetectable tampering that could happen with anonymous voting.

[issybird]

Yeah. What he said.

Also, I just don't get it. For those with privacy concerns, using a unique user name here and not linking to or from any other sites and not sharing your real name or pertinent biographical details surely is sufficient to ensure anonymity?

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by sun surfer

Then let me help. There are two major reasons I prefer public voting, use it in the lit club and wish it had been used here despite any objections.

First, since I know many of the posters - some well, some only vaguely - I like to know who voted for what. Yes, people can post what they voted for; however, that information is spread across a thread and harder to find and only some people post. With a public poll, in one page you can easily look at who voted for what. This isn't important only for posters I may take a recommendation from but also the opposite - I'd like to know what posters whose tastes I don't agree with voted for.

So you want public voting because it makes it easier for you. This reminds me of an argument I had on the phone with a pollster doing marketing research on some product--I didn't want to answer certain demographic questions and she kept saying, But it's just used to help market the product, and I kept saying, And exactly why should I want to help the company market the product?

That, however, is only small fry compared to the second reason. With anonymous voting comes the prospect that the vote can be ruined by sock puppets and no one would be the wiser. And not only sock puppets, but just any mischievous non-sock-puppet posters who want to have a laugh and vote for x knowing that no one will know they did. With public voting, it's all out in the open. If there are any suspicious votes, they are public to view so that we can make our own assumptions about how worthy that vote is. Mobileread for the most part is a better forum than most with more intelligent and mature posters but it's not immune from these sorts of things and with what will probably be a relatively small voter turn-out (it will probably not be getting thousands of votes in each poll like other anonymous online polls) and possible extremely close vote margins, each vote is important.

I've been told it's rather silly to worry about an opinion poll like this as an invasion of privacy; I would suggest it's even sillier to think these polls are important enough for someone to tamper with. What exactly would be the point? Is there some prize for having nominated the books that get the most votes?

Surely, if one is worried about the less savoury dark aspects of the internet then there is a stronger case for public voting here than anonymous voting. Paul is attempting something on a pretty large scale for MR as it's turned out, and putting a lot of work into this and so I'm hoping it goes as well as possible. For the majority of us I think it would be more enjoyable to have public voting, and I would rather risk a small minority not voting in the poll because they don't want to reveal what they voted for rather than risk the very easy and completely undetectable tampering that could happen with anonymous voting.

It's not a matter of worrying, per se, as much as a reluctance to provide information for no legitimate reason. Go to a store, the cashier asks for your phone number. Websites ask for e-mail addresses, sometimes before you can even browse. Kobo wants your age when you enter a trivia contest. Smartphone apps want access to your contact lists.

We shouldn't have to explain why we want to keep personal information private, whatever it is. The burden should be on the other side--why do you want to know?

[Lynx-lynx]

Paul, as an experiment perhaps the vote for the decade 1911 - 1920 could be an open poll whereby the voters are identified once the voting period has finished (the same as originally intended for all voting).

As sun surfer points out, the MR Literary Club uses open voting, it is the preferred method for the reasons he articulated. Perhaps that method could be considered as the MR convention on book votes.

It would be interesting to see if there is much change in the number of votes, although I can see that attempting to compare voting numbers per decade may be fraught irrespective of whether the vote was open or closed. (Irrespective a person who otherwise wouldn't vote because it's an open poll, can always post that they liked a particular book, or compare the book with other books etc, and still get their viewpoint across. Or remain silent altogether - it would be up to them how much they want to participate.)

Having the voting for this decade open, (and perhaps alternate decades through the century depending on a decision at the end of this vote), is one way forward for those who want avatar disclosure about a book that they'd recommend someone else to read, and those who don't want their avatar name associated with a book that they'd recommend someone else to read. Because, after all, these Best Book of the Decade threads are about recommending a 'best' book to others.

What do you think?

Anyone else want to comment?

Just as a thought, could your decision on this matter be left open for say 24-36 hours (or time to be determined) to allow people to voice their views? The voting protocols are an important part of these 'Best of' threads, and have been changed before the bulk of those folk who contributed their books throughout most of the century could respond.

Edit
Paul, are the Moderators able to see the names of the voters when the poll itself does not disclose them?

[AnotherCat]

Originally Posted by issybird

...Also, I just don't get it. For those with privacy concerns, using a unique user name here and not linking to or from any other sites and not sharing your real name or pertinent biographical details surely is sufficient to insure anonymity?

It is off topic so I won't add any more except to suggest that if people want to pursue the subject of anonymity perhaps remove it from this thread by starting another, then point me to it via a PM and I will try to help that thread along by explaining how it was proven in another very large international forum, aimed at participants in another recreational pastime, how easy it is to break presumed anonymity and how the breaking of anonymity had led to the abuse of "victims" in their private life.

Now I have to decide what book in each decade to vote for - thanks pdurrant. But I see many are still pushing for its being public so I may hold off doing so for a while.

[GA Russell]

I enjoy seeing who voted for what in the monthly book club polls.

There are a number of folks here whose opinion I respect, and I am curious when they vote for various books.

Actually, Catlady, you're one of them! When you make up your mind, would you mind PMing me what you've decided?