Windows 10 - free upgrade to those with PC using Windows 7 or 8

[Glorfindel]

There is a difference between 'using linux' and using a linux based device. I wouldn't accuse someone of using linux because they have a toaster .

[eschwartz]

And I wouldn't accuse them of using linux if they have an ereader (unless they use our third-party addons) but I do consider using Android to be using linux.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

And I wouldn't accuse them of using linux if they have an ereader (unless they use our third-party addons) but I do consider using Android to be using linux.

I would not. It's too far removed and indirected. I see no difference in terms of the relationship to Linux between using Android, and using an eReader, Tivo or any other Linux-based consumer embedded system.

No Linux knowledge or awareness is needed or helpful.
In a Kindle, the Kindle uses Linux, the user does not.
In an Android device, Android uses Linux, the user does not.
Same same.

ApK

[eschwartz]

On a PC, the PC uses linux, the user does not.

Or are you unware that linux *can* be used without a degree in computer science these days?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

On a PC, the PC uses linux, the user does not.

Or are you unware that linux *can* be used without a degree in computer science these days?

You're being slightly disingenuous. There is a clear difference between a general-purpose operating system, and a dedicated device which (completely invisibly to the user) runs that operating system behind the scenes. I'm sure that most people would find this pretty clear. I neither know nor care what operating system my washing machine uses in its embedded controller - such knowledge is irrelevant to the use of the washing machine. Knowing what operating system my PC is running is, on the other hand, pretty central to its use.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by HarryT

You're being slightly disingenuous. There is a clear difference between a general-purpose operating system, and a dedicated device which (completely invisibly to the user) runs that operating system behind the scenes. I'm sure that most people would find this pretty clear. I neither know nor care what operating system my washing machine uses in its embedded controller - such knowledge is irrelevant to the use of the washing machine. Knowing what operating system my PC is running is, on the other hand, pretty central to its use.

What he said!

[kacir]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Thank you - looks interesting. Lightroom really is "the" program in this field, though, so it would make sense for me to stick with it.

I am not persuading you to dump your legally purchased expensive software, together with an extensive know-how. This might be interesting for people that are beginning with photography, or if you are helping somebody to install computer.

By the way ... can Lightroom - current version - be purchased as a stand-alone license that you install on a PC from a media and keep until computer dies? I know that recently there is this worrying trend that you have to pay every month for things like Creative Suite. This might be interesting for big corporation, but not for enthusiast. You stop paying and you can't open your own content anymore.

Over the years Linux (and FreeBSD) have gained LOTS of track. I used to keep a Windows boot partition (and later virtual machine) for those rare occasions when I needed to use AutoCAD at home or model something. Nowadays there is DraftSight that has 99% feature of full AutoCAD, and zero price, plus it runs on Linux. There is FreeCad - an open-source modeler similar to Catia, that is finally usable, .... . Every time I have a closer look there is another alternative for critical Windows-only program.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by kacir

I am not persuading you to dump your legally purchased expensive software, together with an extensive know-how. This might be interesting for people that are beginning with photography, or if you are helping somebody to install computer.

Absolutely, and I was in no way meaning to say that your link wasn't valuable or interesting. I'm sure that for many people - particularly given that Adobe applications are relatively expensive - it will be of great interest. Hope my post didn't come across as suggesting that I was ungrateful for your response!

Originally Posted by ApK

I would not. It's too far removed and indirected. I see no difference in terms of the relationship to Linux between using Android, and using an eReader, Tivo or any other Linux-based consumer embedded system.

No Linux knowledge or awareness is needed or helpful.
In a Kindle, the Kindle uses Linux, the user does not.
In an Android device, Android uses Linux, the user does not.

Of course, I was including Android devices and ereaders when I made that comment.

I guess the main problem is: how do you define Linux? I don't insist that Linux is the kernel, and nothing else, since that's not what most people mean when they say Linux. Yet things get very fuzzy very fast once you start bundling software with that kernel. If you pick apart a Kobo ereader, you will find that the init process, utilities, and libraries are similar to those on a Linux desktop. That even includes the libraries that form the user interface.

Or take the flip side. You can use most Linux distributions without Linux knowledge or awareness. Does Linux cease to be Linux if you don't use the command line, pull up a text editor to modify configuration files, compile your software from source, or any of that other nonsense? Of course not. Yet if you ignore all of that arcane stuff that only a few of us enjoy, what is the difference between Linux and embedded Linux (limiting ourselves to devices with a GUI, like Android or ereaders)?

Linux is more than an OS that has potential. It is an OS that is both mature and is easily adapted to a broad range of applications. Most important though, it is an OS that most people interact with directly -- even if the sugar coating on top differs from device to device.

[fjtorres]

http://www.pcworld.com/article/28683...t-desktop.html

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by HarryT

You're being slightly disingenuous. There is a clear difference between a general-purpose operating system, and a dedicated device which (completely invisibly to the user) runs that operating system behind the scenes. I'm sure that most people would find this pretty clear. I neither know nor care what operating system my washing machine uses in its embedded controller - such knowledge is irrelevant to the use of the washing machine. Knowing what operating system my PC is running is, on the other hand, pretty central to its use.

I would argue that a smartphone or tablet has far more similarity to a PC than to an embedded microcontroller ( where did you pull that ridiculous comparison from, if you want to talk about "disingenuous")... or even a single-use embedded system.

Don't you own a Surface tablet? Is that an embedded device, just because it uses a mobile form factor?
What, precisely, is your inscrutable determining factor between "general-purpose OS" and "dedicated, invisible-to-the-user"?
Because it sounds like your definition of "embedded device" refers more to user knowledge than device design; I could easily make the case that a Windows 8 desktop rig is an embedded device according to what you just said. G-d knows, a lot of people wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

[wodin]

How did a Windows 10 thread get hijacked into a "Virtues (or not) of Linux" discussion?

[ApK]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

I would argue that a smartphone or tablet has far more similarity to a PC than to an embedded microcontroller ( where did you pull that ridiculous comparison from, if you want to talk about "disingenuous")... or even a single-use embedded system.

Don't you own a Surface tablet? Is that an embedded device, just because it uses a mobile form factor?
What, precisely, is your inscrutable determining factor between "general-purpose OS" and "dedicated, invisible-to-the-user"?
Because it sounds like your definition of "embedded device" refers more to user knowledge than device design; I could easily make the case that a Windows 8 desktop rig is an embedded device according to what you just said. G-d knows, a lot of people wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

A book on Windows will guide you effectively on many aspects of using a Surface tablet.
A book on Linux will guide on using a PC running just about any distro of Linux.
A book on Linux will do exactly squat in guiding you to use an Android device. Or a Kindle. Or a washing machine.
Someone with more than my Hello World experience with Linux and Android dev can correct me if I'm wrong, but a book on Linux development won't help any with Android development.
Because using Android is not using Linux in any more a meaningful sense than using a Kindle is.
Not sure why you're being obstinate on this point. I suspect you, like most others reading, understand the distinction perfectly well.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by wodin

How did a Windows 10 thread get hijacked into a "Virtues (or not) of Linux" discussion?

It's a news thread. Not much else to talk about until some Windows 10 news pops up, I guess.

[Jack Torrance]

Originally Posted by wodin

How did a Windows 10 thread get hijacked into a "Virtues (or not) of Linux" discussion?

Because no one is currently using W10 except me and they like to argue.....Oh wait I'm not using it either because it doesn't work.

Resume arguments.