My perspective on buying books with DRM

[gweeks]

Originally Posted by RobertDDL

This is a bit off topic, but to answer your question, because I want it for a friend who lives in the US, and who is blind. She would be entitled to read it for free, if it were available from the NLS or from bookshare.org, but it isn't, so I have to scan, OCR and proofread it for her.

Have you tried the Open Library?

Bookshare will take the scans and text from you if you want to give it to them. Or at least they used to if it was a book they didn't have.

Greg

[gweeks]

Originally Posted by HarryT

If the book was ever published in the US, it should be in the Library of Congress.

This hasn't been the case for 30 years or so. When the US joined Berne they dropped the requirement that everything had to have a copy sent to the library of Congress to get copyright protection. Most things do still end up there, but not everything.

Greg

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by gweeks

This hasn't been the case for 30 years or so. When the US joined Berne they dropped the requirement that everything had to have a copy sent to the library of Congress to get copyright protection. Most things do still end up there, but not everything.

Greg

This book, though, is more than 30 years old, I'd guess.

[Fbone]

Is Jane Gaskell still alive? If she is, can you contact her?

[FTL]

There are only 17 copies of this book listed in libraries worldwide, so it's *extremely* scarce. Check at worldcat.org to see where they are.

[murg]

Originally Posted by HarryT

If the book was ever published in the US, it should be in the Library of Congress.

Of course, flying from Austria to Washington, D.C isn't a problem for you?

And the LoC doesn't lend books, at least not to the general public. At least this was the case the last time I was there.

[barryem]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Why would you need to scan it? The previous poster simply wants to read it. He could read the paper copy.

I did buy a paper copy. At my age I pretty much have to read it on an ereader. I can read the paper copy for a little while and my eyes start watering. The contrast just isn't good enough even with a good light. After 15 minutes of reading the paperback I can't read at all for at least a couple of hours.

As I said before, I'm very much in favor of paying authors for their work. For me it's not really an important moral issue, it's a practical thing. If authors make money they'll keep on writing good books for me.

If I want to read a book and no copy is available to buy then too bad. I will read that book if I can find a way to get it. I'm grateful to the pirates for making such books available to me.

If the publishers will sell me a copy then all is well. If the publishers want me to stop getting those books from pirates all they have to do is find a way to make it legally available to me. I'm happy to pay them.

Barry

[barryem]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Really, that is what set me off. The unashamed midset that there is nothing whatsoever wrong, eyebrow-raising, or out of the ordinary in any way shape or form with pirating an ebook for internally-justified reasons.
And then bragging about it on a public forum that has an official no-piracy rule.

I think you're referring to me and I don't think I did brag about getting pirated books. I simply stated that when a book isn't available any other way I get it any way I can. In the same post I also said that I buy nearly all the books I read from Amazon and I only do the pirate thing when there's no other way.

There was no bragging and I didn't say anything about how I did it that might violate a forums no-piracy rules. I am a strong believer in such rules and I won't participate in a forum that doesn't have such rules.

I did say in a further post that I don't have any guilt about doing this and that's true. The failure in this situation is that of the publisher in not making the book available to me legitimately. Does that give me a right to the pirated book? Of course not. But I got the book and I plan to read it and enjoy it.

The book I have in mind is one written by Andrew Greeley that I read and really loved a few decades ago. I've been unable to find a legal copy for my Kindle. I did find an audiobook version of it but I prefer to read it. Actually I bought the audiobook version but I'm not sure that's relevant. Also Greeley never allowed his books to be sold with DRM. I think he might agree with me.

This isn't the only book I've ever gotten a pirate copy of and in the other cases I probably didn't already own the audiobook and the author probably did allow DRM. I don't do this often enough to remember which books these were but it's happened a few times over the years.

Do I feel guilty? Nah. Do I think what I did was wrong? Yeah, somewhat. Do I care? Not really. Does that make me a bad person? I don't think so but obviously you do. We disagree.

I'm not sure I'd have written this post but I'm currently near the end of Steinbeck's "The Winter of Our Discontent" where the main character has just done some seriously immoral things which hurt people he cared about in order to better his life situation. It worked, at least so far, people were hurt, he benefited and now he's going through a series of thoughts similar to what I've just said. I'm finding it hard to forgive him but easy to forgive myself. Of course he states in his thoughts that only other people do wrong things, never ourselves.

If my next book is about a truly moral character I may hate myself for making this post. Maybe I better try to avoid a next book like that.

Barry

[AnotherCat]

Originally Posted by RobertDDL

...This is a bit off topic, but to answer your question, because I want it for a friend who lives in the US, and who is blind. She would be entitled to read it for free, if it were available from the NLS or from bookshare.org, but it isn't, so I have to scan, OCR and proofread it for her.

In my own country there is special exemption in the copyright legislation for making copies of literary and dramatic works for people with print disabilities. This does not just extend to making braille copies for blind readers but other copy types for other sight disabilities, or for physical disabilities that prevent holding or manipulating a book.

Basically one can just go ahead if one meets the criteria. There is a requirement to make an effort to first find a commercial version of the book in the form (braille, large print, eBook) that is needed to meet the needs of the disabled person and to contact the rights holder but failure to be able to do those things does not disqualify one from the exemption. The rights holder has no right to prevent ones use of the exemption.

If using the exemption one can make a charge for the reasonable costs only of preparing the copy(s).

If relevant to your own specific situation you may find that there is similar provision in your own country.

John

[RobertDDL]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

It is definitely still stealing. That is just a simple factoid.

Just for the sake of having a nice stimulating discussion...

I'm willing to confess to the theft, but to make this confession valid, I have to (as the German phrase goes) name horse and rider -- what have I stolen, and from whom did I steal it?

Did I steal from the publisher? But if they had it, either in print or digitally, they'd sell it to me. Since they don't, they don't have it. The thing I want -- a new pbook, or a legal download -- doesn't exist. So, can I steal something that doesn't exist, from someone who doesn't have it?

Did I steal from the author? But, with the book not for sale as ebook or new pbook, there is no way she can receive any money from me. If I bought it used, or if I borrowed it from a library if they had it (the only alternatives to downloading the pirated copy), she wouldn't receive payment either. So, which amount do I steal from her when I choose one action from which she doesn't profit, over a different action from which she doesn't profit?

Did I steal from the used book vendor, who asked $350? But my only interaction with him was that I walked by his (online) shop window, saw his price tag, and decided not to buy from him. As I did with a different vendor, who asked even more. They both still have their copies -- have I stolen from one of them, or from both, just by not buying from them at the outrageous price they asked?

I still have the feeling that I've done something wrong (even if morally excusable and legally not actionable), but it puzzles me, what, of which specific monetary value, have I stolen from whom...?

[RobertDDL]

Originally Posted by gweeks

Have you tried the Open Library?

Bookshare will take the scans and text from you if you want to give it to them. Or at least they used to if it was a book they didn't have.

Greg

Open Library don't have it.

Bookshare don't have it, either. If they did, my friend could read it, but I still couldn't, since I am not visually impaired (and even if I were, quote: "people whose first language is not English DO NOT QUALIFY"). BTW, they do not even allow non-US-residents to contribute. And I'd still have to buy that $350 copy...

Originally Posted by AnotherCat

In my own country there is special exemption in the copyright legislation for making copies of literary and dramatic works for people with print disabilities.

Yes, thank you, and it applies to her, as she is American. But in this case the issue was not the legality of making a copy, but whether to pay $350 for a used pbook to copy it, or revert to a free if illegal pirated copy.

Originally Posted by Fbone

Is Jane Gaskell still alive? If she is, can you contact her?

I'd love to, but I wasn't able to find her. I may try to write to the publishers of her books, but they've all been published a long time ago. I don't know if they'd even be free to give out her contact information if they had it. If anyone here has an idea how to contact her, I'd be glad to hear it!

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by RobertDDL

Open Library don't have it.

Bookshare don't have it, either. If they did, my friend could read it, but I still couldn't, since I am not visually impaired (and even if I were, quote: "people whose first language is not English DO NOT QUALIFY"). BTW, they do not even allow non-US-residents to contribute. And I'd still have to buy that $350 copy...



Yes, thank you, and it applies to her, as she is American. But in this case the issue was not the legality of making a copy, but whether to pay $350 for a used pbook to copy it, or revert to a free if illegal pirated copy.



I'd love to, but I wasn't able to find her. I may try to write to the publishers of her books, but they've all been published a long time ago. I don't know if they'd even be free to give out her contact information if they had it. If anyone here has an idea how to contact her, I'd be glad to hear it!

It appears this title is on Scribd (?).

http://www.scribd.com/doc/53788877/T...ow-Grin#scribd

It's also on Wattpad.

Link deleted by Fbone. Unsure if it's legal.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by RobertDDL

I'd love to, but I wasn't able to find her. I may try to write to the publishers of her books, but they've all been published a long time ago. I don't know if they'd even be free to give out her contact information if they had it. If anyone here has an idea how to contact her, I'd be glad to hear it!

Harry Ransom Centre's Watch File has this info:

Contact for Jane Gaskell 1941-


Copyright Permissions
Sharland Organisation Ltd

The Manor House
Manor Street
Raunds
Northamptonshire
NN9 6JW

UK
Phone: 44 - (0)1933 - 626600 [Office]
Phone: 44 - (0)1933 - 624860 [Fax]

E-mail: tsoshar@aol.com

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by Fbone

It appears this title is on Scribd (?).

http://www.scribd.com/doc/53788877/T...ow-Grin#scribd

I suspect that's an unauthorised publication.

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

I suspect that's an unauthorised publication.

Most probably. One can contact the uploader for verification. Although with Wattpad the entire novella is available for viewing without downloading.