Windows 10 - free upgrade to those with PC using Windows 7 or 8

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by murg

I'm running 8.1 as my main desktop, and for the most part is indistinguishable from Windows 7 (at least as far as being a desktop is).

I detest the start screen and miss the start menu. It's functional on a tablet, it's unusable (for me) on a desktop. And I don't like that monstrosity they've made in Windows 10. And don't tell me I can install some third-party application to have something that I now have with Windows 7. Because I might as well just keep Windows 7 in that case (there's absolutely no reason beside OneDrive that I can find to make the switch)

[mbovenka]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

And don't tell me I can install some third-party application to have something that I now have with Windows 7. Because I might as well just keep Windows 7 in that case (there's absolutely no reason beside OneDrive that I can find to make the switch)

True enough; if you're already running Win7, there isn't much of a reason to upgrade for as long as it (and your hardware) are supported. But buy new hardware now (or even a year ago, as I did) and 8 is what you get. Stuff like Start8 or Classic Shell are a godsend in that case

[dwig]

Personally, I find the whole "I hate the Start Screen" conversation rather curious.

1. I'm an "old dog" (used personal computers since time before the IBM PC) but I can learn new tricks. Why can't the bloggers that want to be though of as authorities on all the new tech learn new things.

2. Personally I always found the Start Menu rather clumsy. You have to drill down into the menu tree to find what you are looking for. If you manually rearrange it then it becomes more functional, but that same manual work makes the Start Screen just as functional. I can't fathom why so many people always want new stuff but can't learn new stuff. I find the Start Menu an adequate but far for "great" interface. The Start Menu, even on a mouse driven desktop orientated environment, to be as good/poor if not slightly better (easier customization for one). Personally, I have relied on "shortcuts" pinned to the Taskbar as my main Desktop method of launching programs for well over a decade and it works as well in Win8.1 as it ever did.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by dwig

Personally, I find the whole "I hate the Start Screen" conversation rather curious.

1. I'm an "old dog" (used personal computers since time before the IBM PC) but I can learn new tricks. Why can't the bloggers that want to be though of as authorities on all the new tech learn new things.

Can. Don't want to. Not without a good reason, and the changes in the 8 interface are anything but good for me.
If I'm going to spend my time and change my habits, it had better be because it makes my tools serve me better.

Surely you're familiar with the vi credo "I don't want to learn another text editor." Same idea.

The XP/7 Start Menu may not the best of all possible GUIs, but it is a part of what's made the last two generations of MS OSes their most popular and successful. There needs to be good user-serving reason to change, and "drive people to using our mobile devices and cloud services" is not one.

ApK

[eschwartz]

I totally agree the Start Menu has problems. The Start Screen fixed none of those problems while shuffling everything around for zero reason, and took an additional step backward.

You want a decent start menu? Install linux. Plenty of linux desktops have great menus. Because they are category based, with exactly one sublevel, and it is all generated automatically based on the metadata embedded in the menu shortcut.
(Ubuntu however seems to be quite talented at taking the same kind of backward steps. c.f. Unity)


But if you are going to be using Windows there is no reason whatsoever to switch to the Metro Start Screen.

[murg]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

I detest the start screen and miss the start menu. It's functional on a tablet, it's unusable (for me) on a desktop. And I don't like that monstrosity they've made in Windows 10. And don't tell me I can install some third-party application to have something that I now have with Windows 7. Because I might as well just keep Windows 7 in that case (there's absolutely no reason beside OneDrive that I can find to make the switch)

My computer boots up to the Desktop.

If I want something that isn't on the desktop or the Quick Links taskbar, the Start Screen is about the same usability as the old Start Menu, especially as the Start Screen is buildable.

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by murg

My computer boots up to the Desktop.

If I want something that isn't on the desktop or the Quick Links taskbar, the Start Screen is about the same usability as the old Start Menu, especially as the Start Screen is buildable.

I don't agree. When I go to the start menu in Windows 7, I can still see my desktop. I don't need a second monitor for the start menu alone.

I don't know why, I can't explain it, but it annoys me horribly when I have to go to a different full screen and then switch back to the full screen where I already was, only to start a new application. It's jarring.

And the Quick Links I tend to keep empty and only put those applications on there that I will open 99% of the time (at home, that's only the browser, at work that's the browser, explorer and visual studio). And I've kept my desktop clean from icons ever since Window 95 and I like it that way. (I don't understand some people who have the most gorgeous backgrounds and yet can never see it because their entire desktop is covered with icons...)

[dickloraine]

I don't have 8.1, but for me the start menu is totally unimportant. I have never used it. I have links directly on the desktop and for the most often used programs in the taskbar. And I have folders on the desktop for not that often used programs. Much faster than using the start menu.
The only thing I use in the start menu is the search. And since 7 that is faster than the start menu too. Just begin typing the name of an app and you can start it. Only used for obscure apps I nearly never use. Finding where it may be in the start menu would take much longer.

[dwig]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

I don't agree. When I go to the start menu in Windows 7, I can still see my desktop. I don't need a second monitor for the start menu alone.

I don't know why, I can't explain it, but it annoys me horribly when I have to go to a different full screen and then switch back to the full screen where I already was, only to start a new application. It's jarring. ...

I've never felt that I needed to see the Desktop while digging down in the Start Menu. I'll agree that the Start Menu was a bit of a jarring slap in the face in the old and "dead" Win8.0, but in 8.1 is can be much less so if setup correctly. The option for matching the background to the Desktop, the ability to use smaller icons, and the option to default to the All applications portion of the Start Screen environment improve the experience. Personally, I now have a slight preference for the Start Screen over the antique Menu.

[Purple Lady]

It always confuses me when people have problems using the start menu. It's where I put my most used programs. How can you have problems finding something on the start menu when you put something there yourself? Or don't most people put things on the start menu? I like putting things there because it's easy to open another program when you're already in one without having to leave that program and go to the home screen. I also put my most used things at the top and bottom of the start menu so all it takes to get to them is hit the start button and the up or down arrow and then enter.

Originally Posted by Purple Lady

It always confuses me when people have problems using the start menu. It's where I put my most used programs. How can you have problems finding something on the start menu when you put something there yourself? Or don't most people put things on the start menu? I like putting things there because it's easy to open another program when you're already in one without having to leave that program and go to the home screen. I also put my most used things at the top and bottom of the start menu so all it takes to get to them is hit the start button and the up or down arrow and then enter.

I suspect that many people don't know how to customize the Start Menu, or that it can even be done, so they are frequently stuck browsing through the nested folders created in the Start Menu by installers. (I clean that up personally, since I prefer things grouped by application type rather than application, but that goes beyond pinning an application and isn't exactly intuitive.)

[eschwartz]

Also, coming from linux I hold the opinion it is the application developer and OS vendor who should organize the Start Menu by application category.
Why should I (have to) waste my time doing it?

[shalym]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Also, coming from linux I hold the opinion it is the application developer and OS vendor who should organize the Start Menu by application category.
Why should I (have to) waste my time doing it?

But what if you don't want it organized by application category? What if you want it sorted by most used, or alphabetically, or anything else? What if you want to not have it sorted at all, but only want the programs listed on there that YOU want?

Shari

[Purple Lady]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

I suspect that many people don't know how to customize the Start Menu, or that it can even be done, so they are frequently stuck browsing through the nested folders created in the Start Menu by installers. (I clean that up personally, since I prefer things grouped by application type rather than application, but that goes beyond pinning an application and isn't exactly intuitive.)

That mess of folders is why I started putting stuff on the start menu to begin with.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by shalym

But what if you don't want it organized by application category? What if you want it sorted by most used, or alphabetically, or anything else? What if you want to not have it sorted at all, but only want the programs listed on there that YOU want?

Shari

An All Applications filter that shows everything alphabetically.
Most used/specific shortlist (same thing?) -- why not pin those to the taskbar?
Right-click --> Add (menu item) to Favorites --> Same Quick Start bar on the left that Windows Start Menu has. Although it doesn't automatically fill up with a Most Recently Used list... something I've never found particularly useful anyway.
If you want something more complicated, right-click the menu button and Configure it, then open the Menu Editor.

There are many other application menus, since everyone has their own idea of what they want.


I simply feel that what the OS can do itself, it should. I will grant that a good menu should be able to be overridden. Fortunately, most are.