David Nicholls: Browsing bookshops then buying online is a 'genteel form of shoplifti

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Phogg

Do you consider it equally dodgy to read product reviews at Amazon and then buy at a local business?

Of course not. It's only dodgy to use a shop as a showroom for price comparison when the shop in question can't afford for customers to use their shop as a showroom for price comparison.

The "online" part is irrelevant. Either it's OK to shop at one place and buy at another (intent be damned) or it's not. That the shopkeeper has a physical door to open has no bearing on the ethicality of the practice. In fact, it could be argued (with the same logic) that it's unethical of a B&M shopkeeper to ask that a customer pay more than they have to for something just because they looked at it in your shop (and you have a physical door to grease).

So it all boils down to, "is it OK to browse and yet not buy at B&M stores?" And the answer is, "of course it is."

[Synamon]

The last time I went into a bookstore it was to buy a coffee not a book. I suppose that's unethical too?

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by Terisa de morgan

The same case I say. You are going to purchase it at a shop, that it has the cheapest price, but the item is not in display, so you go where you can see it prior to the purchase.

I would say that it is perhaps short sighted not to purchase at least something if you enjoy browsing in a book store. Otherwise, the book store will eventually go out of business. This sort of thing has been going on a long time. Back before the Internet, people use to browse the computer stores and then mail order what they wanted.

Back when I was still going to the local B&N, I had the conundrum of wanting to browse the store to see what was new, but preferring to be ebooks rather than dead tree books. If I saw a book that I liked, I would check to see if the ebook was available, and if it wasn't buy the dead tree book. If B&N had a decent supply of ebooks at the time, they would have gotten more of my business. I felt bad about it, but not bad enough to buy dead tree books when ebooks were available.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

So it all boils down to, "is it OK to browse and yet not buy at B&M stores?" And the answer is, "of course it is."

Do you think it would be ethical to go to a B&M store and ask a sales assistant to spend an hour demonstrating, let's say, different models of televisions to you, and then go and buy your preferred model online?

[eschwartz]

pwalker8 -- I don't really feel B&N provides a service in that way -- most of the books I have found were via recommendations and sometimes browsing the library.

I have even found books recommended by Amazon, shockingly.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Do you think it would be ethical to go to a B&M store and ask a sales assistant to spend an hour demonstrating, let's say, different models of televisions to you, and then go and buy your preferred model online?

See my post above, and note there is a tremendous difference between that and simply browsing.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Do you think it would be ethical to go to a B&M store and ask a sales assistant to spend an hour demonstrating, let's say, different models of televisions to you, and then go and buy your preferred model online?

Sure (or perhaps more accurately: I don't believe ethics enter into it at all). The cost to the B&M store (for the sales assistant's hour) is the same whether I buy it there, down the street, online, or not all. It would be just as "ethical" as asking the sales assistant to spend an hour demonstrating and then deciding not to buy anything, no? Intent doesn't enter into it. I see the salespersons hour as a perfect example of a sunk cost--it's incurred whether he/she is demonstrating things to you, someone else, or picking their nose behind the counter.

If it's unethical to use up a salesperson's time without purchasing something, then surely that applies across the board right?

[Little.Egret]

There are other possibilities

Looking at the Amazon sample and then getting the book from the library.

Browsing in a B&M bookshop and then buying a used copy.

The problem with the 'shoplifting' sound bite is the same as with 'pirating e-books is theft' one.

You may be behaving unethically but you haven't stolen or damaged the item which is still available for sale, so not in fact any form of theft in either case.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Sure. The cost to the B&M store (for the sales assistant's hour) is the same whether I buy it there, down the street, online, or not all. It would be just as "ethical" as asking the sales assistant to spend an hour demonstrating and then deciding not to buy anything, no? Intent doesn't enter into it. I see the salespersons hour as a perfect example of a sunk cost--it's incurred whether he/she is demonstrating things to you, someone else, or picking their nose behind the counter.

If it's unethical to use up a salesperson's time without purchasing something, then surely that applies across the board right?

To my mind there is a fundamental ethical difference between deciding that you don't like anything they've demonstrated to you, and having the demonstration and then buying online.

[theducks]

Originally Posted by Phogg

Do you consider it equally dodgy to read product reviews at Amazon and then buy at a local business?

No, because many of those reviews were supplied FREE, by customers (or shills )

[Terisa de morgan]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

I would say that it is perhaps short sighted not to purchase at least something if you enjoy browsing in a book store. Otherwise, the book store will eventually go out of business. This sort of thing has been going on a long time. Back before the Internet, people use to browse the computer stores and then mail order what they wanted.

That I agree. However, this discussion is totally theoretical for me. I live in Spain and I read in English mainly. I am restricted to do my research online, as the local bookstores have a ridiculous selection in English, even when I purchased paper books, something I don't do now.

[theducks]

Originally Posted by Kasper Hviid

Some time ago, I went into a electronic store to buy a microphone. I looked over the various options, feeling completey clueless. I the end, I walked up to the counter and asked the clerk what he would recommend. While he wouldn't advice me to buy cheapest, he also made me forget about their more expensive ones. If I wanted to go up in that price area, he told me, I had better visit a shop specialized in audio equipment, and not general electronics. In the end, I bough one in the lower middle ground.

It is capitalism, but it is also just people who upholds their humanity, despite what behavior would be optimal within the rules of the market. Kind of like prisoners dilemma - both can benefit, but it requires a trust that the other part won't try to screw you over.

Bravo to that stores clerk. It sounds (pun intended) like you got good advice Service first, Sales second . I would go back, even if the price was not Rock Bottom

So many stores just PUSH the high profit (like the 'Monster') lines that really offer no measurable advantage to the user. 'Make a Sale', get a commission.

The one that really burns, is the clerk that dispense wrong advice, rather than admit the don't know or share the sale with someone who does.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by HarryT

To my mind there is a fundamental ethical difference between deciding that you don't like anything they've demonstrated to you, and having the demonstration and then buying online.

So at what point does it become unethical?
If you're undecided, is it OK to go home and think on it for a while? After deciding everything they demonstrated to you was too expensive and deciding to forget it, how much time would have to pass before you could "ethically" buy one of those models online if there was a huge online sale on one of them?

Is it unethical to go into a shop (knowing full well you're not buying anything there, down the street, or online) and take up a salesperson's time chatting and asking questions about things?

I just don't understand how "unethical" gets attached at the, "and then buys it online" point. It seems so random.

If "intent" is the key, then surely going home and baking a cake after drooling over one in the baker's window is just as "unethical."

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

pwalker8 -- I don't really feel B&N provides a service in that way -- most of the books I have found were via recommendations and sometimes browsing the library.

I have even found books recommended by Amazon, shockingly.

I was talking about simply browsing rather than talking to the staff. Back when I was going to B&N, I simply found it easier to browse the new book section at the front of each genre (SF&F, History, etc.) to see what new books came out since the last time I was there. I rarely got recommendations from the staff at B&N.

I get recommendations from a number of sources - here, amazon, etc... Some match what I like, some don't.

[Catlady]

Ethics don't enter into it. This is just a silly attempt to guilt the consumer.