Easiest one to create "folders" in...??

[HarryT]

I've seen Pocketbook and Onyx devices sold in shops here in the UK, but I imagine that most of their sales are online. Bookeen are of course a French company, so perhaps they are more commonly found in France than elsewhere - I don't know. I've owned devices made by all three companies over the years.

[JSWolf]

I've seen some Onyx devices sold on Amazon.com.

[Hrafn]

Let me point out a few factual errors in cybmole's post.

As HarryT has pointed out, a number of "dedicated e-readers are designed to" not "insulate you from actual files , folders... ". I would add two more manufacturers to the list: Hanvon and Boyue. The Boyue T62 is sold in Europe under the brands Icarus and Energy Sistem.

Originally Posted by cybmole

4. the closest you can get is as I outlined in a now deleted post: don't get an e-reader, get a tablet instead and install software like ES file explorer ( android) or the windows equivalent ( windows tablets) or the apple equivalent if they have one. Only tablets, not e-readers, allow you to install apps that give you that windows-like nitty gritty file view and file structure control, without hacking/rooting etc.

This is in fact incorrect. AFAIK, most (all?) implementations of Android (unsurpringly) come with a file manager. Having the manuals for the Boyue T62 and Onyx C67 in front of me, I can say categorically that this is the case for these models. It would be a pretty unintelligent manufacturer who built an Android eReader, or any Android device, but did not include some mechanism to find files stored on it. You could probably find an exception if you tried really hard, but they'd be very few and very short-lived.

5. there are many tablet reader apps, some free, some premium but whatever one you choose will, as well as opening your file for you to read it, place it on some kind of virtual shelf or in some kind of list ( as that's what most users want, according to app designer's research).
but still, you can resolutely ignore that and just read. you can even configure a tablet + an app so that open with takes you straight into the book, and maybe also so that "close" takes you back to file explorer.. at the expense of less easy access to bookmarks, notes, annotations... but your choice.

some of those apps import a copy of the book into their own database some work with the copy that already exists on the tablet. All, AFAIK, do some mandated categorising/ indexing /tagging, using metadata from the book file and/or from the filename

(i) Any Android eReader will come with one (or more) eReader apps. (ii) I have never seen a directory-based eReader place any book on "some kind of virtual shelf or in some kind of list" other than the eReader OS itself placing it on a 'most-recently-read' list accessible directly from the OS (something that Windows also does). (iii) I have seen no evidence that "easy access to bookmarks, notes, annotations..." is prevented by opening books through the file manager. (iv) I have used FBReader on Windows, Pocketbook and Onyx, and Moonreader and Adobe on Onyx (three of the more widely used eReader apps) and have not experienced any of the behaviour mentioned in cybmole's final paragraph on point 5. I cannot categorically state that it never happens, but can state that it is nothing like pervasive.

I would note that while cybmole made a big deal about "evidence, cross references, please", they never ground their long list of claims to specific tablets/Android-eReaders or specific eReading apps.

The basis for these statements are (i) usage of Pocketbook and Onyx (pre-Android) directory-based eReaders and (ii) perusal of the manuals for the Boyue T62(+) and Onyx C67.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Hrafn

This is in fact incorrect. AFAIK, most (all?) implementations of Android (unsurpringly) come with a file manager. Having the manuals for the Boyue T62 and Onyx C67 in front of me, I can say categorically that this is the case for these models. It would be a pretty unintelligent manufacturer who built an Android eReader, or any Android device, but did not include some mechanism to find files stored on it. You could probably find an exception if you tried really hard, but they'd be very few and very short-lived.

The devices you're talking about are generic Android tablets, rather than dedicated reading devices. Many dedicated eInk readers use Android as an operating system, but are not "open" devices.

[Hrafn]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The devices you're talking about are generic Android tablets, rather than dedicated reading devices. Many dedicated eInk readers use Android as an operating system, but are not "open" devices.

It rather depends on whether you set the boundary at "dedicated reading devices" or 'devices designed primarily for eReading', which the two models I mentioned definitely are. Regardless, I would hardly describe them as "generic Android tablets" (unless you meant generic Android-tablets, as opposed to generic-Android tablets). They are sold as eReaders, and listed in MR's 'eBook Reader Matrix'.

I will admit that I'd forgotten about eReaders running locked-down versions of Android. Does anybody other than B&N still do this? (They've disappeared back into the tall grass somewhat, making them more easily overlooked than they were a few years back.) Are such devices visibly Android based, such that they'd be confused with devices running a fully-fledged version of Android?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Hrafn

It rather depends on whether you set the boundary at "dedicated reading devices" or 'devices designed primarily for eReading', which the two models I mentioned definitely are. Regardless, I would hardly describe them as "generic Android tablets" (unless you meant generic Android-tablets, as opposed to generic-Android tablets). They are sold as eReaders, and listed in MR's 'eBook Reader Matrix'.

To me, a generic Android tablet is one that you can install apps on. I'd consider the Onyx T68 to be a generic tablet, for example.

[cybmole]

a couple more factoids
1. kobo -ereaders dont even run android, they are based on linux.
all e-reader that I own/have owned: kobo, sony, kindle.. impose their own library views and are locked down so that no non-geek can add/change behavior. those 3 make up 90+% of the e-reader market.
2. not all android tablets come with file manager software. e.g all of the kIndle fire range lack this - an app has to be sourced and installed.
3. apps that put books on shelves: i cite moon+ pro, alkido, mantano , kobo. there's 4 popular reader apps which do , and I'd suggest they collectively have 90%+ of the worldwide e-read apps sold for android market.


the point i tried to make earlier which got lost in the flames: it is trivial to replicate a windows folder structure on a device via USB. it is NOT trivial to suppress the behavior of reader apps which insist on ignoring that structure & presenting the books library in "their" preferred way. , as do all of those listed above.

the "counterexample" cited models: bookeen, Pocketbook.. are not available in my high street or at amazon.uk. there presumably is some reason why they have tiny market share and are not attractive to retailers: price/ quality/ features(lack of)..? I don't know, don't much care...

and please be careful with your generalisations:
e.g. "
It would be a pretty unintelligent manufacturer who built an Android eReader, or any Android device, but did not include some mechanism to find files stored on it. You could probably find an exception if you tried really hard, but they'd be very few and very short-lived.".
you can call Amazon unintelligent, if you wish to, but you can't really claim that their Kindle Fire devices are few in number or shortlived, and I assure you that mine came without a file manager.

[cybmole]

PS I am not being awkward for the sake of it, but neither I, nor my dictionaries, nor google can fathom the significant differences between:
generic Android-tablets, as opposed to
generic-Android tablets

is there such a thing as a generic android-tablet that does not run generic-android ?

PS I'd like to see a screenshot of any reader app showing a full blown + easy to browse windows-style folder/subfolder arrangement, from within the app. I am not saying that such a thing does not exist, just that I have never seen one, & I have tested pretty much every epub reader app in the amazon & google app stores.

Pictures speak louder than words & we have far too many words in this thread already. I suspect the OP has long ago unsubscribed from the melee.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by cybmole

PS I'd like to see a screenshot of any reader app showing a full blown + easy to browse windows-style folder/subfolder arrangement, from within the app. I am not saying that such a thing does not exist, just that I have never seen one, & I have tested pretty much every epub reader app in the amazon & google app stores.

Pictures speak louder than words & we have far too many words in this thread already. I suspect the OP has long ago unsubscribed from the melee.

The readers I've owned that have supported folders (eg Pocketbook devices) show a library screen which is very like Windows Explorer. ie a folder tree with a list of books in each folder.

[HarryT]

Here's a couple of pictures from my BeBook Neo (a re-badged Onyx device), as requested. The first shows a view of the folder tree - I use folder names for authors. The second shows the contents of a folder (which could, of course, also contain lower-level folders). The text along the top of the screen shows the path to the current folder ("SD Card" -> "Authors" -> "Anderson, Poul").

Hope that's what you were looking for.

[cybmole]

well that seems to be what the OP wanted - hope he's still with us.

but is it still on the market ?

google shopping has no matches and amazon uk says
Currently unavailable.
We don't know when or if this item will be back in stock.

the google review search results all seem circa 2010 - 2011 ?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by cybmole

well that seems to be what the OP wanted - hope he's still with us.

but is it still on the market ?

That particular model isn't, but more modern Onyx and Pocketbook devices work in essentially the same way. The Neo is pretty ancient - I'm certainly not recommending that anyone buys that particular model.

[Hrafn]

Thank you cybmole for more needless and unhelpful snark.

Originally Posted by cybmole

PS I am not being awkward for the sake of it, but neither I, nor my dictionaries, nor google can fathom the significant differences between:
generic Android-tablets, as opposed to
generic-Android tablets

My point was that there is a difference between a specialised for-eReading (e.g. by eInk screen, inclusion of eReading apps by default) tablet that runs generic Android (as opposed to a purposefully neutered and locked down version of Android) and a generic tablet (which can be used to watch videos, play games etc) which runs Android. The former are frequently, and perfectly legitimately, referred to as "eReaders" by many, the latter are not. (I would also note that neither dictionaries nor Google place any particular emphasis on English grammar which, particularly with hyphenation, allows for a degree of specificity in how modifers, such as "generic" and "Android" nest to the root noun.)

PS I'd like to see a screenshot of any reader app showing a full blown + easy to browse windows-style folder/subfolder arrangement, from within the app. I am not saying that such a thing does not exist, just that I have never seen one, & I have tested pretty much every epub reader app in the amazon & google app stores.

1) Given nobody claimed "a full blown + easy to browse windows-style folder/subfolder arrangement", nobody is obliged to provide you with screenshots of one. (I would also point out that expecting such behaviour from earlier eReaders, that lacked even a touchscreen, is not just unreasonable, but downright absurd.) All that was claimed was that many had a (often simple and basic) file manager already built in, without needing rooting and installation to add this functionality. Addendum: likewise nobody suggested that this functionality existed "within the app", rather than as part of the OS.

2) Given that the previously-cited (and easily findable on the Web) manuals for the T62(+) and the C67 (both of which are current models) explicitly discuss their file manager, and as the 'eBook Reader Matrix' allude to this type of behaviour for numerous other eReaders by listing them as having the 'folders' feature, I would suggest that further evidence is unnecessary.

[Dr. Drib]

Moderator Notice

Further personal attacks - as demonstrated in the opening sentence in the above post - will result in more suspensions.

Take the time to read those Posting Guidelines.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by Hrafn

My point was that there is a difference between a specialised for-eReading (e.g. by eInk screen, inclusion of eReading apps by default) tablet that runs generic Android (as opposed to a purposefully neutered and locked down version of Android) and a generic tablet (which can be used to watch videos, play games etc) which runs Android. The former are frequently, and perfectly legitimately, referred to as "eReaders" by many, the latter are not.

I would argue that people frequently and legitimately claim the exact opposite, on the grounds that the distinction is meaningless.
Either one is capable of doing anything a tablet can, like "watch videos, play games etc" -- the only real difference other than specs, is the screen.

Oh, and the default-included ereading apps. If that was all it took to be an ereader, then any tablet that comes with Google Play Books in the stock firmware is really an ereader.

I agree with the statement above, that any device which runs open android and allows you to install arbitrary apps on, is a tablet -- regardless of screen brand and manufacturer-recommended apps.