Books without swear words - there's an app for that

[HarryT]

These things can be taken too far, though, Barty. Believe it or not, I was once criticised in another forum for using the word "niggardly", which the poster, in her profound ignorance, wrongly believed was derived from the word "nigger". Needless to say, it's entirely unrelated!

[ApK]

Originally Posted by HarryT

These things can be taken too far, though, Barty. Believe it or not, I was once criticised in another forum for using the word "niggardly", which the poster, in her profound ignorance, wrongly believed was derived from the word "nigger". Needless to say, it's entirely unrelated!

There have been several remarkably high profile news controversies over here about the same thing. See Wikipedia for details.

It puts me in mind of a fake 'correction' the Fresno Bee once published, satirizing this kind of PC over-reaction:

An item in Thursday’s Nation Digest about the Massachusetts budget crisis made reference to new taxes that will help put Massachusetts “back in the African American.” The item should have said “back in the black.”

[Billi]

[ups. Wrong thread]

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by HarryT

These things can be taken too far, though, Barty. Believe it or not, I was once criticised in another forum for using the word "niggardly", which the poster, in her profound ignorance, wrongly believed was derived from the word "nigger". Needless to say, it's entirely unrelated!

I would actually be afraid to use the word niggardly today. For the reason you mentioned. The Net has become the Domain of the illiterate and ignorant, and trying to have ANY type of intelligent conversation is hopeless in most areas. I'd use niggardly here, and on Straight Dopers, but that would be about it. Maybe on Quora, depending on the thread. But I'd be actually scared to use it in most places.

I just saw an 8-page long (w/approx. 25-50 replies per page) thread on the KDP forums about "justification," with people INSISTING that "right-justify" and "left-justify" not only exist, (as a real, typographic thing), but are correct usages. Now, that was bad enough, but you should have seen the vitriol. It descended into some slagging match with some references to some alleged homophobia on the part of one of the posters. I mean...for the love of heaven.

Hitch

[Doonge]

Originally Posted by Hitch

I like to pat myself on the back

Hitch

If you say that you are scared I suppose that it means you project your real identity while talking on the internet?

You should try being more anonymous, it will help you spread your knowledge without repercussion if you so desire.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by Hitch

I just saw an 8-page long (w/approx. 25-50 replies per page) thread on the KDP forums about "justification," with people INSISTING that "right-justify" and "left-justify" not only exist, (as a real, typographic thing), but are correct usages. Now, that was bad enough, but you should have seen the vitriol. It descended into some slagging match with some references to some alleged homophobia on the part of one of the posters. I mean...for the love of heaven.

Hitch

Ok...so now I'm intrigued. I always thought that those were "a real typographic thing". Apparently they're not? So...what is the correct term for when all of the text starts at the left side of the page and the right side is ragged?

Shari

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Doonge

If you say that you are scared I suppose that it means you project your real identity while talking on the internet?

You should try being more anonymous, it will help you spread your knowledge without repercussion if you so desire.

I stand behind what I say, when I say it. I don't hide behind pseudonyms and avatars, unlike many if not most.

If I'm going to insult someone, I do it in the daylight, where people can see me, like a grown-up.

Hitch

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by shalym

Ok...so now I'm intrigued. I always thought that those were "a real typographic thing". Apparently they're not? So...what is the correct term for when all of the text starts at the left side of the page and the right side is ragged?

Shari

Left-aligned, or RR (ragged right). If you think about it, "justified" means simply, that a line of text is made precisely equal, in length, to the lines around it (above, below). All the lines are justified, from one margin--whatever that is--to the other. If you could/did "left-justify" something, what would that mean? Or Right-justify? There's right-align, left-align, and justify.

Some programs, back in the day, used terms like "left-justify" and "right-justify" instead of "left-align" and "right-align," and heavens help us all, the APA even adopted the terms, so now people think that they're correct. I did point out that using that criterion, (that a "lotta people" think that something is correct), that "I could care less" must now be proper grammer meaning that one could not care less, but that point seems to have been lost. ;-)

Does that make sense?

Hitch

[ApK]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Left-aligned, or RR (ragged right). If you think about it, "justified" means simply, that a line of text is made precisely equal, in length, to the lines around it (above, below). All the lines are justified, from one margin--whatever that is--to the other. If you could/did "left-justify" something, what would that mean? Or Right-justify? There's right-align, left-align, and justify.

Some programs, back in the day, used terms like "left-justify" and "right-justify" instead of "left-align" and "right-align," and heavens help us all, the APA even adopted the terms, so now people think that they're correct. I did point out that using that criterion, (that a "lotta people" think that something is correct), that "I could care less" must now be proper grammer meaning that one could not care less, but that point seems to have been lost. ;-)

Does that make sense?

Hitch

WAIT WAIT! Hrmm. You can't just undo everything I've learned from decades of word processing on your say so!
Can you point me to some authoritative evidence for your non-thing claim?
I mean, why are you right and the menu of my word processor wrong?
You ask

If you could/did "left-justify" something, what would that mean?

Well, according to my word processor menu, I can/do, and it means precisely what we all know it to mean. It's a synonym for left flush, simple as that.
Now, I'm with you on the idea that shifts of language, if only due to ignorance, should be resisted, but I'd like see some evidence that it was the guy who named the word processor feature that was ignorant of the matter, and not...um....you.
But seriously, even if you are correct, and I figure you are, it would not be the same as using non-standard spelling because you couldn't bother to open a dictionary.
It would be, I'd guess, a reasonable back-formation from justification. And creating, and latching onto, a synonym that more uniquely ties the idea to another typographical term, as opposed to using the more multipurpose "flush" or "aligned" is a perfectly valid reason for shift in a living language in my book.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by ApK

WAIT WAIT! Hrmm. You can't just undo everything I've learned from decades of word processing on your say so!
Can you point me to some authoritative evidence for your non-thing claim?
I mean, why are you right and the menu of my word processor wrong?

Well, hell, if I were like everyone else on the Internet, sure I could. I'd just say, 'cuz I say so, and that would be FACT, right? :-)

Check Bringhurst, "The Elements of Typographic Style," Fourth Edition. It's considered a bit of a Bible on typography. Nowhere--nowhere--does the phrasing "left-justify" or "right-justify" appear.

"If the text is set ragged right, the word space (the space between words) can be fixed and unchanging. If the text is justified (set flush left and right, like the text in this book, that space must usually be elastic."

--Bringhurst, The Elements of Typographic Style, 4th Ed. p.26, text produced as-is, no emphasis added.

Technically, it's not aligned-left, rr, it's "flush left, ragged right," which typographers abbreviate as "FL/RR." Alternatively, it's "FR/RL" (Flush Right, Ragged Left), and Justified. The actual definition of "justified," from Bringhurst, is:

"Justify To adjust the length of the line so tha tit is flush left and right on the measure. Type in the Latin alphabet is commonly set either justified or FL/RR (flush left, ragged right)"

--Bringhurst, The Elements of Typographic Style, 4th Ed. p.341, text produced as-is, no emphasis added

You ask



Well, according to my word processor menu, I can/do, and it means precisely what we all know it to mean. It's a synonym for left flush, simple as that.
Now, I'm with you on the idea that shifts of language, if only due to ignorance, should be resisted, but I'd like see some evidence that it was the guy who named the word processor feature that was ignorant of the matter, and not...um....you.
But seriously, even if you are correct, and I figure you are, it would not be the same as using non-standard spelling because you couldn't bother to open a dictionary.
It would be, I'd guess, a reasonable back-formation from justification. And creating, and latching onto, a synonym that more uniquely ties the idea to another typographical term, as opposed to using the more multipurpose "flush" or "aligned" is a perfectly valid reason for shift in a living language in my book.

Hey, argue with the typographers, not me. Programmers may have decided that using "left-justify," for some bizarro-world reason, made more sense to them than "FL/RR," but to me, it's simply tautological to use "full justify," because quite simply, what OTHER justification is there?

As I said, whatever someone's word-processor taught them, if you really think about the idea, either "justify" now means NOTHING, or "left-justify" is nonsensical, because it means, start text flush left, and justify it to...where? If it's to the right margin, that's justified text. If it's "right-justified," again, you put the text flush-right, and justify it to...where? Even the OED states that justification is:

"8. v.t. Orig., make exact, adjust to exact shape, size, or position. Now, spec. in Typogr. etc., adjust spacing along (a line of text) to a prescribed measure so that adjacent lines are of equal length; arrange (a body of text) into lines of equal length. M16."

So, take it up with whomever wrote Wordperfect, which is from whence I think this all originated. Somebody, somewhere, swore that they had "left-justify" or whatever on Word, and maybe it does; I honestly don't recall. I know that the current-ish iteration has align left, right, centered, or justified.

Hitch

[Dr. Drib]

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[Fiat_Lux]

Originally Posted by PeterT

From http://www.nosweatshakespeare.com/bl...g-shakespeare/

When I was in High School, I didn't use the book of Shakespeare that was assigned, but one I already had. It wasn't until the teacher had us each read a part, that I discovered that the school version had been "cleaned up".

I don't know how I was assigned the part, but one of the lines I had to read was "It promoteth the desire, but taketh away from the performance."

Rest of the class looks at me as if I am not following the play.
Teacher looks at me for a minute then says: "You aren't reading from the assigned textbook, are you?"
I told him I wasn't, then he said to jump ahead to a specific line, so I'd be where the rest of the class was.

Theater maxim: Never read, much less perform that damned Scottish play. It always will cause a problem.

Amber

[Tarana]

" The wicked shall be turned into heck, and all the nations that forget God. "

Darn the torpedoes!