Books without swear words - there's an app for that - Page 6

doubleshuffle · 03-26-2015, 03:00 PM

I think I recall reading on Nate's blog that he managed to sideload books into the app. (Can't be bothered to search for that though...)

jgaiser · 03-26-2015, 03:21 PM

Author Chuck Wendig's opinion of the app. Warning... Lots of swear words...

BWinmill · 03-26-2015, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgaiser

Author Chuck Wendig's opinion of the app. Warning... Lots of swear words...

And anyone who's using the app to read that article will simply see it as a mildly negative review, while anyone who doesn't use the app will see it as a condemnation. I guess the app kinda reenforces it's own world view.

AprilHare · 03-27-2015, 04:33 AM

The most offensive things you can read typically don't have swear words in them.
Nonsense app.

hardcastle · 03-27-2015, 08:40 AM

I think it's a cool use of eBooks to have an app such as this. People can control their own experience if they want to. I think that's fantastic. Authors have artistic expression, and that's great, but sometimes it's possible to disagree with them.

I think this particular type of control is exceedingly silly but it shows that eBooks are a really powerful medium moving forward because it expands beyond the static nature of writing before this.

shalym · 03-27-2015, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardcastle

Authors have artistic expression, and that's great, but sometimes it's possible to disagree with them.

Yes...it's possible to disagree with them, and if you* do, the proper response is to not read what they write. I don't believe it's proper to change what they have written to "clean it up". There are millions of books to read, a large portion of which were probably written by authors that you do agree with. Why not read those books, rather than try to change the other ones to fit your definition of "clean"?

Shari

*To clarify, I am using the collective "you". I am not intending to call out any specific person.

hardcastle · 03-27-2015, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shalym

Yes...it's possible to disagree with them, and if you* do, the proper response is to not read what they write. I don't believe it's proper to change what they have written to "clean it up". There are millions of books to read, a large portion of which were probably written by authors that you do agree with. Why not read those books, rather than try to change the other ones to fit your definition of "clean"?

Shari

*To clarify, I am using the collective "you". I am not intending to call out any specific person.

So where does the buck stop? Changing the font and formatting? Adding spaces after paragraphs to make it easier to read? Having the book read to you by a robot? I don't have to buy specific eBooks to be able to do any of these. They seem like common sense changes to the book. Maybe some author would be opposed to the change, but I don't really see the differentiation between those and removing certain words systematically for whatever reason.

I find it very arbitrary that the decision on how to consume a novel stops with the author's words. It's a very limiting way of viewing the medium. Everyone experiences writing in different ways, and if communication is paramount then reader control should be equally important.

Prestidigitweeze · 03-27-2015, 09:10 AM

On the nether hind, certain substitutions can be disturbingly evocative.

"Children of the Damned" doesn't seem half as unsettling as "Children of the Darned." I'm not sure I want to think about a Redcap made of yarn giving birth.

hardcastle · 03-27-2015, 09:22 AM

If anything this substitution would make a lot of books better. Fifty Shades of Gray would be hilarious.

Reminds me of taking public domain books and remixing them, a la Pride and Prejudice and Zombies. I wouldn't say they're equivalent works, but they're very entertaining.

ApK · 03-27-2015, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shalym

Yes...it's possible to disagree with them, and if you* do, the proper response is to not read what they write. I don't believe it's proper to change what they have written to "clean it up". There are millions of books to read, a large portion of which were probably written by authors that you do agree with. Why not read those books, rather than try to change the other ones to fit your definition of "clean"?

Shari

*To clarify, I am using the collective "you". I am not intending to call out any specific person.

Interesting. If we may go slightly ad absurdium for the sake of argument, and Devil's advocacy:

What makes your words so perfect and inviolate? You deliver them from a burning bush or something? Folk tales, songs, legends, get altered and evolved and changed for peoples and cultures and that's pretty much what DEFINES cultures. If you don't want your words changed, don't publish them. Perhaps the reason that classics are classics is because the words are good, and most people don't WANT to change them, it's not because they were prohibited from changing them. There is nothing IMPROPER about that response. Maybe if lots of people want to change your words, it just means the original words weren't very good.

HarryT · 03-27-2015, 09:27 AM

If there are people who find this app useful, then for them it's beneficial. We may not agree with them, but we aren't required to. It doesn't bother me in the slightest that someone else may gain benefit from something that I personally wouldn't.

SleepyBob · 03-27-2015, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shalym

Yes...it's possible to disagree with them, and if you* do, the proper response is to not read what they write. I don't believe it's proper to change what they have written to "clean it up". There are millions of books to read, a large portion of which were probably written by authors that you do agree with. Why not read those books, rather than try to change the other ones to fit your definition of "clean"?

Shari

*To clarify, I am using the collective "you". I am not intending to call out any specific person.

Why is that? If I love mysteries, but don't care for excessive gore, I should just limit myself to cozy mysteries instead of reading an enjoyable book and skip over a few pages I don't enjoy?

Some people like to read popular books, but skip over the sex scenes. Some people like to read popular books, but skip over the really scary parts. Some people like to read popular books, but skip over the technical science explanations. Some people like to read popular books, but would prefer to skip over the profanity.

eschwartz · 03-27-2015, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardcastle

If anything this substitution would make a lot of books better. Fifty Shades of Gray would be hilarious.

Reminds me of taking public domain books and remixing them, a la Pride and Prejudice and Zombies. I wouldn't say they're equivalent works, but they're very entertaining.

Isn't that the point? They are derivative works, and pointedly so.

This app therefore infringes copyright, and represents itself as the original author's work!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApK

Interesting. If we may go slightly ad absurdium for the sake of argument, and Devil's advocacy:

What makes your words so perfect and inviolate? You deliver them from a burning bush or something? Folk tales, songs, legends, get altered and evolved and changed for peoples and cultures and that's pretty much what DEFINES cultures. If you don't want your words changed, don't publish them. Perhaps the reason that classics are classics is because the words are good, and most people don't WANT to change them, it's not because they were prohibited from changing them. There is nothing IMPROPER about that response. Maybe if lots of people want to change your words, it just means the original words weren't very good.

Excellent comparison to folk tales, songs, and legends... and classics... all of which are very upfront about their nature as not being the original authors' work.

A lot of authors appear to be very concerned on that basis alone.

Witty Username · 03-27-2015, 10:49 AM

Ian Rankin's tweet on this subject made me

Quote:

People seem equivocal about the Clean Reader app, but I've just installed Dirty Reader and it has done wonders for the Miss Marple books.

RHWright · 03-27-2015, 10:49 AM

My first reaction to the news of this app was, "well, that's silly." But it seems to have become ...a thing. Controversy. Whatever.

To those equating using the app as parents "abdicating responsibility," I would say I see it as another tool if they want to use it. Like putting locks on your doors, or blocking certain sites from your home computer, or not subscribing to cable channels with content you don't like. But I tend to favor letting parents make their own parenting choices, even if I don't agree with them. Unless it is profoundly or permanently damaging to the child or contrary to public health and safety, I generally tread carefully in condemning others' parenting choices.

On the author's/creator's rights side, I have more mixed feelings and I am not exactly clear on how the app works. If the site is altering the book without author approval before it is sold & delivered to the consumer, that is a problem for me. If the app somehow takes an existing file that the consumer owns,* and is truly only filtering what is displayed, I have fewer problems.

I would prefer it black out or replace with **** any "objectionable" words than ham-fistedly substituting from a pre-set list. What if a character is named Jesus (Hay-soos)? What if a preacher character is telling someone they need to change their ways or be damned? Lot less effective than telling them they'll be darned! What if someone is saying, "stop being such a dick!"? Now it'll be the much better, "stop being such a groin!"!

If it's truly just filtering or editing software that an end-user implements on only their copy of the book for their own use, I really have no objections to that in concept. It's little different than using available tools to add/switch covers, copyedit to personal standards, change fonts and formatting, etc. If someone wants to manually use existing tools to change/expurgate/bowdlerize a book, they can. This app just seems to make that simpler and automated.

Personally, I disagree with the necessity or impetus to do so. Plenty of other options are available and have been discussed. Read another book. Discuss the book in context with your child. Etc. But, as a general concept, I think the end user has a right to do this. But it does come back to my general precept about many of our legal "rights": Just because you have the right to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do.

But from what I am seeing, I don't think this is all in the end user's hands. There seems to be at least some of the alterations going on in the site/seller's hands. That is a problem.

*And please, let's not open the owned vs. licensed discussion/debate. That's a separate topic. For my purposes, once you purchase an ebook, you morally/ethically have certain rights to alter that file for your own personal use.

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03-26-2015, 03:00 PM	#76
doubleshuffle Unicycle Daredevil Posts: 13,944 Karma: 185432100 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Planet of the Pudding Brains Device: Aura HD (R.I.P. After six years the USB socket died.) tolino shine 3	I think I recall reading on Nate's blog that he managed to sideload books into the app. (Can't be bothered to search for that though...)

03-26-2015, 03:21 PM	#77
jgaiser Omnivorous Posts: 3,283 Karma: 27978909 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Rural NW Oregon Device: Kindle Voyage, Kindle Fire HD, Kindle 3, KPW1	Author Chuck Wendig's opinion of the app. Warning... Lots of swear words...

03-27-2015, 04:33 AM	#79
AprilHare Wizard Posts: 2,981 Karma: 11862367 Join Date: Apr 2008 Device: Sony Reader PRS-T2	The most offensive things you can read typically don't have swear words in them. Nonsense app.

03-27-2015, 08:40 AM	#80
hardcastle Zealot Posts: 138 Karma: 3651501 Join Date: Dec 2013 Device: Kindle Paperwhite 2, Gray Kindle Basic	I think it's a cool use of eBooks to have an app such as this. People can control their own experience if they want to. I think that's fantastic. Authors have artistic expression, and that's great, but sometimes it's possible to disagree with them. I think this particular type of control is exceedingly silly but it shows that eBooks are a really powerful medium moving forward because it expands beyond the static nature of writing before this.

03-27-2015, 09:10 AM	#83
Prestidigitweeze Fledgling Demagogue Posts: 2,384 Karma: 31132263 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: White Plains Device: Clara HD; Oasis 2; Aura HD; iPad Air; PRS-350; Galaxy S7.	On the nether hind, certain substitutions can be disturbingly evocative. "Children of the Damned" doesn't seem half as unsettling as "Children of the Darned." I'm not sure I want to think about a Redcap made of yarn giving birth.

03-27-2015, 09:22 AM	#84
hardcastle Zealot Posts: 138 Karma: 3651501 Join Date: Dec 2013 Device: Kindle Paperwhite 2, Gray Kindle Basic	If anything this substitution would make a lot of books better. Fifty Shades of Gray would be hilarious. Reminds me of taking public domain books and remixing them, a la Pride and Prejudice and Zombies. I wouldn't say they're equivalent works, but they're very entertaining.

03-27-2015, 09:27 AM	#86
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	If there are people who find this app useful, then for them it's beneficial. We may not agree with them, but we aren't required to. It doesn't bother me in the slightest that someone else may gain benefit from something that I personally wouldn't.

03-27-2015, 10:49 AM	#90
RHWright Addict Posts: 219 Karma: 2617122 Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: North Carolina Device: NOOK ST, Nexus 7	My first reaction to the news of this app was, "well, that's silly." But it seems to have become ...a thing. Controversy. Whatever. To those equating using the app as parents "abdicating responsibility," I would say I see it as another tool if they want to use it. Like putting locks on your doors, or blocking certain sites from your home computer, or not subscribing to cable channels with content you don't like. But I tend to favor letting parents make their own parenting choices, even if I don't agree with them. Unless it is profoundly or permanently damaging to the child or contrary to public health and safety, I generally tread carefully in condemning others' parenting choices. On the author's/creator's rights side, I have more mixed feelings and I am not exactly clear on how the app works. If the site is altering the book without author approval before it is sold & delivered to the consumer, that is a problem for me. If the app somehow takes an existing file that the consumer owns,* and is truly only filtering what is displayed, I have fewer problems. I would prefer it black out or replace with **** any "objectionable" words than ham-fistedly substituting from a pre-set list. What if a character is named Jesus (Hay-soos)? What if a preacher character is telling someone they need to change their ways or be damned? Lot less effective than telling them they'll be darned! What if someone is saying, "stop being such a dick!"? Now it'll be the much better, "stop being such a groin!"! If it's truly just filtering or editing software that an end-user implements on only their copy of the book for their own use, I really have no objections to that in concept. It's little different than using available tools to add/switch covers, copyedit to personal standards, change fonts and formatting, etc. If someone wants to manually use existing tools to change/expurgate/bowdlerize a book, they can. This app just seems to make that simpler and automated. Personally, I disagree with the necessity or impetus to do so. Plenty of other options are available and have been discussed. Read another book. Discuss the book in context with your child. Etc. But, as a general concept, I think the end user has a right to do this. But it does come back to my general precept about many of our legal "rights": Just because you have the right to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do. But from what I am seeing, I don't think this is all in the end user's hands. There seems to be at least some of the alterations going on in the site/seller's hands. That is a problem. *And please, let's not open the owned vs. licensed discussion/debate. That's a separate topic. For my purposes, once you purchase an ebook, you morally/ethically have certain rights to alter that file for your own personal use.