epub to mobi then send to kindle document service fail

[eschwartz]

Hopefully this will clear it up once and for all.

There are two formats (regardless of file extension):
old MOBI
new MOBI
Additionally, you can combine both in one file (so an old device still reads the old MOBI, but a new device sees the new MOBI).


old MOBI has the file extension .mobi
new MOBI has the file extension .azw3 and is called AZW3 to distinguish it. It is a new format, and honestly, has about as much to do with old MOBI as EPUB has to CBZ -- that is, they both use the same compression wrapper.

You probably have Apprentice Alf's tools which helpfully rename all files on import into the above-described sensible distinguishing filetypes.



When does the confusion set in? Amazon -- they for some G-d-blessed reason name ALL ebooks, whether MOBI, AZW3, or for all I know, Print Replica, Topaz, etc. -- to plain old AZW (a filetype which strictly speaking does not exist, and certainly shouldn't). At least on the PC/Mac applications I believe -- while Kindle Fires get .prc instead, along the same lines of illogic.
To pile on additional confusion -- E-Ink Kindles get .azw files which are really MOBIs, and .azw3 files which are indeed AZW3 -- which actually makes a modicum of sense.
As though it mattered -- no Kindle app/device cares what the file extension is anyway, though you probably do care.


One final fun fact -- why are both called MOBI? Because they are in a way like EPUB2 and EPUB3 -- both called EPUB.
Technically old MOBI is mobi7 and new MOBI is mobi8 (KF8) -- the evolutionary form of the old mobipocket ebook format.

Read all about it in our Wiki -- if you dare. MOBI AZW3

[cybmole]

i was with you up to where you said " when does the confusion set in"

and then the confusion set in

but it will probably make complete sense if I read it very slowly, many times - thanks.

just one more question:
at what point in the amazon hardware range does the change from old to new device occur . as per
so an old device still reads the old MOBI, but a new device sees the new MOBI)

[eschwartz]

I figured as much. But at least you now know which bits are the confusing ones -- that alone should be of some help.

[cybmole]

we are doing more tresting. some file got through but appear as docs not as books.
google says change [PDOC] to [EBOK} oon mobi output page. there s no mention of [EBOK] is hte calibre pop up help ?

also we know that mobi: old is accepted by the kindle email and that , MObi new is rejected.
mobi: both seems also to be accepted but I wonder if amazon just throw away half of that & thus it would be more efficient to not bother sending it. the file size for mobi: Both is 50 - 100% larger. e.g. a sample mobild book 2MB, but mobi:both or same book 3MB
I guess the easiest way to test that is to email mobi: both to my own kindle fire and then check file size sent vs file size received, unless someone already knows the answer.
my daughter's kindle is an e-ink paper white 2nd gen , so what she gets via the email route may be different to what my kindle fire gets ?

[eschwartz]

Send a dual-MOBI and Amazon will give you an AZW3 if the device supports it. But it won't have a cover image in Cover View.

Amazon will "fix" all books by turning them into docs -- regardless of type. The solution is to sideload.

[cybmole]

So the PDOC vs EBOK tag option does nothing ?
And if the email route can select azw
from a mobi both file, why does it reject a mobi new file
I need to do more tests I think.

[cybmole]

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=170171

[cybmole]

It gets worse
This thread contradicts previous link
What to believe ?
http://www.mobileread.mobi/forums/sh...=176669&page=2

[cybmole]

And this is different again, but more recent
http://www.epubor.com/how-to-make-mo...ndle-fire.html

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by cybmole

So the PDOC vs EBOK tag option does nothing ?

There is a cdetype (exth 501 header) field, which controls whether a book displays as PDOC or EBOK. calibre will correctly set it to EBOK if you change that tag (technically you can simply leave the option blank, as you discovered multiple sources arguing over).
However, once you send the book to Amazon, they post-process the book and turn it into a PDOC.

And if the email route can select azw
from a mobi both file, why does it reject a mobi new file

Because Amazon wants to...
Possibly they don't want you having a Personal Document which cannot be read by older devices, but I don't buy that -- I think it is simply a stupid oversight.

[BetterRed]

Sheesh - little wonder I won't touch Amazon with a 10' barge pole - there be dragons abounding in that wall-to-wall gobbledegook garden

BR

[eschwartz]

Don't worry, everyone else has their own quirks too -- so you won't feel left out.

[cybmole]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

There is a cdetype (exth 501 header) field, which controls whether a book displays as PDOC or EBOK. calibre will correctly set it to EBOK if you change that tag (technically you can simply leave the option blank, as you discovered multiple sources arguing over).
However, once you send the book to Amazon, they post-process the book and turn it into a PDOC.



Because Amazon wants to...
Possibly they don't want you having a Personal Document which cannot be read by older devices, but I don't buy that -- I think it is simply a stupid oversight.

Thanks again, I'll settle for that & not wade deeper into the mire.
the "once you send the book to amazon" bit explains why I don't see this behaviour if I use CC to wirelessly put mobi onto tablet.

[cybmole]

update: I could not resist a couple more test.
file sizes: I chose a book which converts to 3Mb with mobi: both, and to 800k with mobi: old. whichever I send, I only get the 800k file on Kindle Fire, so amazon are throwing away 2/3rd of the 3Mb email.
everything I tested with amazon email ends up in my KF documents folder with a gobbledygook actual file name but appears on the carousel & is listed as a document.
PS and the copies of the various emailed .mobi files which amazon helpfully also place in my cloud drive all have .azw extensions in the cloud !