Why is backlist so expensive? - Page 3

mr ploppy · 03-19-2015, 08:38 AM

2nd hand paperback, mainly because the ebook version will be full of mistakes. Only exception being if the paperback is more expensive or hard to find. Then I'll run it through Stylewriter, so at least some of the mistakes can be fixed before reading.

I do think writers, or more likely the publishers who own them, are missing out on a lot of money by not "competing" with the 2nd hand market. Price them at £3 or less and nobody would bother with 2nd hand paperbacks except the book sniffers.

DiapDealer · 03-19-2015, 09:21 AM

My TBE pantry has almost never affected my decision to pop out for a burger and fries.

Seriously though, if people's TBR lists are so big and full of such wonderful delights to last a lifetime ... why are you still window-shopping at all?

RHWright · 03-19-2015, 09:26 AM

From the consumer side, I don't see a distinction to be made between new and backlist titles. A book they haven't read yet is "new" to that particular reader, whether it originally came out yesterday or 50 years ago.

From the publisher side, it's about maximizing profits. There is a certain new cost for conversion, especially on older backlist. But there are a variety of strategies that can work for backlist---price like a new book, because it is a beloved classic always in demand (Dune, Watership Down); price as a bargain to introduce new readers and get fans to pay for it (again) in the new format; give it away for free (seen this with several where rights have reverted and the author just seems to want it in print, even if they have to give it away).

But I don't think there is a "right" price for backlist. It just depends.

thewitt · 03-19-2015, 09:43 AM

The trend for publishers is to price backlist higher than current titles, and I suspect that it's simply to drive profit for what will be a lower volume title.

As far as conversion costs, these are minimal in the grand scheme of things. Even if you did not have the original source - and I suspect most still do - going from a scanned print book to a well edited eBook is fairly trivial.

Phogg · 03-19-2015, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

My TBE pantry has almost never affected my decision to pop out for a burger and fries.

Seriously though, if people's TBR lists are so big and full of such wonderful delights to last a lifetime ... why are you still window-shopping at all?

I'm not an addict.
I can quit anytime I want to.

DiapDealer · 03-19-2015, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phogg

I'm not an addict.
I can quit anytime I want to.

Great answer!

Sydney's Mom · 03-19-2015, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoffR

Add $9.98 to the paperback price for Amazon's cheapest shipping option to New Zealand and $7.99 for the ebook starts to look cheap.

They don't offer Prime?

BearMountainBooks · 03-19-2015, 12:50 PM

I've had the same problem as the OP lately. If I buy used, by the time I add in shipping, I'm at 7 or 8 bucks anyway. I will buy the used paperback if it's 3.99 total, but sometimes I just skip entirely because I'm looking for something to read RIGHT NOW--and that means finding a lower-priced ebook.

I talked to a couple of authors about the pricing. One author was bringing back his list via his agent. The agent was bearing the upfront costs of scanning, new cover (because the rights to the old cover will have expired or not transfer), formatting and uploading. The covers run anywhere from 100 to 1000 depending on who is doing the work. The formatting runs about 100 if there is nothing special added, and the uploading can range from 60 to 100 or more. The "agent" as the publisher and the agent, gets a cut for being the agent/publisher (that runs 15 to 20 percent on average) of the cut. Amazon is going to take at least 30 percent.

In the case of the author above, the book was priced at 9.99 out the gate, mainly, I suspect, to recoup the costs of getting the book back out there. That same book a year later went to 4.99.

So that is ONE example of reasoning. I suspect that when a publisher is doing the work, the reasoning is the same, although I've not seen a regular publisher lower the price.

Two other trad authors I know used a service to do the above work (cover, scans, formatting and uploading). Those deals run a bit different and I think the services take at least 30 percent. Amazon gets the same 30 percent as always. The service handles sending out payments to the author, much as publishers used to do.

In talking to various authors, one of the things you, the reader, are paying for is the fact that they were trad published at some point--ie the quality reputation. They have a "brand" behind them, whether that brand is still visible or not. Now, whether the reader is willing to pay for the "stamp of quality/branding" remains to be seen, but in general, from what I hear, the reader is willing to pay up slightly for that "stamp." But it's more in the neighborhood of 5.99.

Some authors, especially ones with a backlist, are finding that they can set themselves apart by pricing the same as new books. Their name is already known, the quality known/assumed and by not pricing at 1.99 and 2.99, they appear more obviously to be a traditionally published author.

FWIW. Your mileage may vary. But I can tell you the trend for most authors is to price higher and use a sale to get attention. Or some price higher and leave it there because even though there are fewer sales, the money ends up about the same. Some authors have enough history they may know they can count on a certain number of sales--and those readers will buy at 7.99.

Apache · 03-19-2015, 02:06 PM

I plan to stop reading when I die.

Apache

Barcey · 03-19-2015, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apache

I plan to stop reading when I die.

Apache

I don't, but I might be disappointed.

BearMountainBooks · 03-19-2015, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barcey

I don't, but I might be disappointed.

I hear video replay of actual events is big in Heaven...they probably have books if they have video replay.

theducks · 03-19-2015, 04:07 PM

Video Replay of Political commercials

Is Hell! Definitely you are in Hell

BearMountainBooks · 03-19-2015, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theducks

Video Replay of Political commercials

Is Hell! Definitely you are in Hell

No, no, this is where REAL events (not tv) was recorded. So if you want to know what really happened in the War of the Roses, you can view the actual history. Or if you want to go back in time to when dragons were more prevalent, you can see the real reason they have nearly disappeared. You know, COOL stuff.

crossi · 03-19-2015, 05:03 PM

I had an extensive collection of my favorite books in paperback. I've replaced about 2/3 of them, ~1000 books, with the ebook version. Except for a very few I haven't, nor would, pay $8 for a book I already own. The remaining paperbacks along with other backlist books I didn't buy or didn't keep will just have to wait until I get a price I consider worth it. Somewhere between $5 to $1 dollar depending on wether I liked the book or am just trying to complete an author set.

bgalbrecht · 03-20-2015, 12:45 AM

My personal take on backlist prices is that if the rights are owned by the author, the price is usually in the range $2.99 - $7.99, and $4.99 is probably most common. It's less than a new mass market paperback.

Publishers, on the other hand, generally never charge less than the price of a new mass market paperback. Their view is that:

They want consumers to consider the cheapest paper edition and ebooks comparable.
Any backlist book they publish is competition to their new books, and there's no point in selling a bunch of cheaper books that price conscious consumers will buy instead of the newly released book which hasn't made its pre-production costs and author's advance.

Sometimes, for "classic works", the publishers will only reprint in trade paperback because they don't expect to have a large enough print run to make it worth another mass market paperback edition. That's why you'll sometimes see 50 year old books get an ebook edition that retails for $12-15.

View Poll Results: How would you purchase a backlist from your favorite author
Kindle at $7.99	34	62.96%
Brand new paperback at $8.49	2	3.70%
Used paperback at $3.99	16	29.63%
I don't buy ebooks	3	5.56%
I don't read--why am I here?	1	1.85%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 54. You may not vote on this poll

03-20-2015, 12:45 AM	#45
bgalbrecht Wizard Posts: 1,806 Karma: 13399999 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: US Device: Nook Simple Touch, Kobo Glo HD, Kobo Clara HD, Kindle 4	My personal take on backlist prices is that if the rights are owned by the author, the price is usually in the range $2.99 - $7.99, and $4.99 is probably most common. It's less than a new mass market paperback. Publishers, on the other hand, generally never charge less than the price of a new mass market paperback. Their view is that: They want consumers to consider the cheapest paper edition and ebooks comparable. Any backlist book they publish is competition to their new books, and there's no point in selling a bunch of cheaper books that price conscious consumers will buy instead of the newly released book which hasn't made its pre-production costs and author's advance. Sometimes, for "classic works", the publishers will only reprint in trade paperback because they don't expect to have a large enough print run to make it worth another mass market paperback edition. That's why you'll sometimes see 50 year old books get an ebook edition that retails for $12-15.

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03-19-2015, 08:38 AM	#31
mr ploppy Feral Underclass Posts: 3,622 Karma: 26821535 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Yorkshire, tha noz Device: 2nd hand paperback	2nd hand paperback, mainly because the ebook version will be full of mistakes. Only exception being if the paperback is more expensive or hard to find. Then I'll run it through Stylewriter, so at least some of the mistakes can be fixed before reading. I do think writers, or more likely the publishers who own them, are missing out on a lot of money by not "competing" with the 2nd hand market. Price them at £3 or less and nobody would bother with 2nd hand paperbacks except the book sniffers.

03-19-2015, 09:21 AM	#32
DiapDealer Grand Sorcerer Posts: 28,569 Karma: 204127028 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD	My TBE pantry has almost never affected my decision to pop out for a burger and fries. Seriously though, if people's TBR lists are so big and full of such wonderful delights to last a lifetime ... why are you still window-shopping at all?

03-19-2015, 09:26 AM	#33
RHWright Addict Posts: 219 Karma: 2617122 Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: North Carolina Device: NOOK ST, Nexus 7	From the consumer side, I don't see a distinction to be made between new and backlist titles. A book they haven't read yet is "new" to that particular reader, whether it originally came out yesterday or 50 years ago. From the publisher side, it's about maximizing profits. There is a certain new cost for conversion, especially on older backlist. But there are a variety of strategies that can work for backlist---price like a new book, because it is a beloved classic always in demand (Dune, Watership Down); price as a bargain to introduce new readers and get fans to pay for it (again) in the new format; give it away for free (seen this with several where rights have reverted and the author just seems to want it in print, even if they have to give it away). But I don't think there is a "right" price for backlist. It just depends.

03-19-2015, 09:43 AM	#34
thewitt Zealot Posts: 129 Karma: 1135446 Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Miami, Florida Device: iBooks	The trend for publishers is to price backlist higher than current titles, and I suspect that it's simply to drive profit for what will be a lower volume title. As far as conversion costs, these are minimal in the grand scheme of things. Even if you did not have the original source - and I suspect most still do - going from a scanned print book to a well edited eBook is fairly trivial.

03-19-2015, 12:50 PM	#38
BearMountainBooks Maria Schneider Posts: 3,746 Karma: 26439330 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Near Austin, Texas Device: 3g Kindle Keyboard	I've had the same problem as the OP lately. If I buy used, by the time I add in shipping, I'm at 7 or 8 bucks anyway. I will buy the used paperback if it's 3.99 total, but sometimes I just skip entirely because I'm looking for something to read RIGHT NOW--and that means finding a lower-priced ebook. I talked to a couple of authors about the pricing. One author was bringing back his list via his agent. The agent was bearing the upfront costs of scanning, new cover (because the rights to the old cover will have expired or not transfer), formatting and uploading. The covers run anywhere from 100 to 1000 depending on who is doing the work. The formatting runs about 100 if there is nothing special added, and the uploading can range from 60 to 100 or more. The "agent" as the publisher and the agent, gets a cut for being the agent/publisher (that runs 15 to 20 percent on average) of the cut. Amazon is going to take at least 30 percent. In the case of the author above, the book was priced at 9.99 out the gate, mainly, I suspect, to recoup the costs of getting the book back out there. That same book a year later went to 4.99. So that is ONE example of reasoning. I suspect that when a publisher is doing the work, the reasoning is the same, although I've not seen a regular publisher lower the price. Two other trad authors I know used a service to do the above work (cover, scans, formatting and uploading). Those deals run a bit different and I think the services take at least 30 percent. Amazon gets the same 30 percent as always. The service handles sending out payments to the author, much as publishers used to do. In talking to various authors, one of the things you, the reader, are paying for is the fact that they were trad published at some point--ie the quality reputation. They have a "brand" behind them, whether that brand is still visible or not. Now, whether the reader is willing to pay for the "stamp of quality/branding" remains to be seen, but in general, from what I hear, the reader is willing to pay up slightly for that "stamp." But it's more in the neighborhood of 5.99. Some authors, especially ones with a backlist, are finding that they can set themselves apart by pricing the same as new books. Their name is already known, the quality known/assumed and by not pricing at 1.99 and 2.99, they appear more obviously to be a traditionally published author. FWIW. Your mileage may vary. But I can tell you the trend for most authors is to price higher and use a sale to get attention. Or some price higher and leave it there because even though there are fewer sales, the money ends up about the same. Some authors have enough history they may know they can count on a certain number of sales--and those readers will buy at 7.99.

03-19-2015, 02:06 PM	#39
Apache Readaholic Posts: 5,277 Karma: 90000484 Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: South Georgia Device: Surface Pro 6 / Galaxy Tab A 8"	I plan to stop reading when I die. Apache

03-19-2015, 04:07 PM	#42
theducks Well trained by Cats Posts: 31,054 Karma: 60358908 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: The Central Coast of California Device: Kobo Libra2,Kobo Aura2v1, K4NT(Fixed: New Bat.), Galaxy Tab A	Video Replay of Political commercials Is Hell! Definitely you are in Hell

03-19-2015, 05:03 PM	#44
crossi Guru Posts: 997 Karma: 12000001 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Seattle Wahington U.S. Device: kindle	I had an extensive collection of my favorite books in paperback. I've replaced about 2/3 of them, ~1000 books, with the ebook version. Except for a very few I haven't, nor would, pay $8 for a book I already own. The remaining paperbacks along with other backlist books I didn't buy or didn't keep will just have to wait until I get a price I consider worth it. Somewhere between $5 to $1 dollar depending on wether I liked the book or am just trying to complete an author set.