Getting Kindle books without a Kindle

[desertgrandma]

Okay lets be serious. Before you can purchase a Kindle book, you must have a Kindle registered to your amazon account.
The book can be downloaded to your computer, but is only readable on the registered Kindle.

So Im saying the answer is "no".

However, since you can buy Kindles on ebay, they have no way of knowing whether your Kindle is working or not. Breaking DRM I would say would be an option.

Have you tried calling Kindle support, and asking if you could still download books if 'your' kindle was broken?

[RickyMaveety]

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

i still don't see how this would be theft. it may be a violation of amazon's tos or something similar, but if the book is actually paid for, never copied or distributed other than to the person who paid for it, how is that theft OR copyright infringement ???

Zeep ... we're talking about two different situations.

The one that is illegal is if Y owns a Kindle and X does not. X pays Y to send him AZW files that Y owns so that he can break the DRM and read them on his device. Since Y would be violating the terms of his license his actions would constitute theft in the same way that peer to peer file sharing can be considered theft (as well as breach of copyright).

If, on the other hand, X has paid Amazon for a book that he/she for some odd reason cannot download, and Y decides to send the book to X for his or her use (assume it is one of the six licenses that Y holds), then it is unlikely that it could be considered theft since both parties X and Y have paid Amazon for a license for that book. Amazon has not been deprived of what it would have otherwise received.

But ... if the tos say that you are paying for six licenses on a single account, and you take it on yourself to transfer one to another account such that Amazon loses money on the transaction ... that is actually theft as well as a violation of tos. I mean, assuming your intent is to save some money.

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by vivaldirules

(Man, it's hard to ask a legitimate question sometimes without putting a bee up someone's backside.)

Let me try to rationally ask a couple of questions. If you know me, you'll know I'm not trying to hack, steal, or support global anticapitalism. So please don't beat me up!

1. Has anyone with a device capable of reading Mobipocket files (that could be PC or a handheld device) asked someone from Amazon and expressed their desire to purchase one of the ebooks they sell? Surely they understand that these Mobipocket files could be read on other devices. I simply want to know if someone has received a response other than "No".

2. Zelda and others have mentioned that the ebooks must be delivered in some ways other than whispernet. If they are available on their PC, can the owner of a Kindle also read these files on a Cybook, for example?

Many people don't have whispernet. As long as you have a US based credit card AND address, you can buy Kindle books and download to your computer. You can then transfer to Kindle via USB cord provided with Kindle.

However, I haven't figured out how to read them in any other way but on the Kindle. Amazon is pretty sneaky that way.

That Bee itches.

[RickyMaveety]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

Okay lets be serious. Before you can purchase a Kindle book, you must have a Kindle registered to your amazon account.
The book can be downloaded to your computer, but is only readable on the registered Kindle.

So Im saying the answer is "no".

However, since you can buy Kindles on ebay, they have no way of knowing whether your Kindle is working or not. Breaking DRM I would say would be an option.

Have you tried calling Kindle support, and asking if you could still download books if 'your' kindle was broken?

DG .... you can always download books. Broken Kindle or not ... as long as there is a registered Kindle on the account, you can download books for that Kindle onto your PC.

Now .... reading them would be difficult (let's say impossible) on that Kindle since it's broken, but there is no way that Amazon knows or cares if the Kindle on the account is broken or not. If they cared, I suppose they would have made the Whispernet download the only option. Although, I think that would have been a crashingly bad idea.

[DixieGal]

I thought you were looking for a site to purchase books for your Nokia. Sorry.

Wait a sec, did you already buy the book? Does Amazon let folks buy ebooks without a Kindle to download to? I'm sure that if you email Amazon, they will refund your money if you explain that you are unable to use the book.

I just did a quick Google search and read about your Nokia. It has wifi connectivity, right? Like I said earlier, go to http://www.mobipocket.com/en/downloa...ailsreader.asp and download the software. Then try to download a free MOBI book from here and play with it until it works. If it never seems to work for you, then download eReader software. Something will have to work for you sooner or later.

I'm gonna repeat it: Amazon is not where you get ebooks, UNLESS you own a Kindle.

Good Luck!

[desertgrandma]

I think we're all talking at the same time.

But at least we're trying to arrive at a solution.

So Ricky, can you figure out a way to read the books once they are your computer?

[RickyMaveety]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

Many people don't have whispernet. As long as you have a US based credit card AND address, you can buy Kindle books and download to your computer. You can then transfer to Kindle via USB cord provided with Kindle.

However, I haven't figured out how to read them in any other way but on the Kindle. Amazon is pretty sneaky that way.

That Bee itches.

Since the AZW files are really just mobi prc files, it's not that hard. However, you do have to break the DRM associated with the AZW file.

It's only the AZW1 Topaz files that, as far as I know, have no good crack to them yet.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by RickyMaveety

Yes, actually, it is illegal to pay someone for what you know to be stolen property regardless of whether or not they actually do give it to you in completion of the transaction.

But giving a copy of the file is copyright infringement and theft and I saw that you wrote that it worked in a similar way in this case also. For me it is not obvious that it has to be so since people say that theft and copyright infringement is regulated by different types of laws (at least in Sweden, copyright infringement is not part of criminal law).

I have to check what holds in Sweden in this case. I have not heard about people being prosecuted for paying for things that they did not receive.

[RickyMaveety]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

I think we're all talking at the same time.

But at least we're trying to arrive at a solution.

So Ricky, can you figure out a way to read the books once they are your computer?

Yes, there are a number of ways (floating around MR, in fact) to crack DRM on mobi prc files ... loads on the net as a whole.

Converting the AZW file to prc is as simple as changing the *.azw to *.prc. Breaking the DRM is a little bit more involved ... but doable. Myself, in order to make what I hope will be a long term accessible archive copy of my books and music, I crack DRM all the time. However, I do not do it in order to file-share, or cheat the artist, author, or publishing company out of their profits. That would be theft, and I'm not willing to push the envelope that far.

[pshrynk]

Originally Posted by cynoclast

I guess, but is it actually possible to get the book you bought without a functioning kindle? This is rather important.

Trying to tack against the incipient flame war going on, I would probably search Fictionwise and Books on Board for the book you want in a format that you want it in. failing that, i would advise waiting for a while, since e-books seem to be gaining in popularity and are appearing in quite a few places, albeit slowly at times.

[RickyMaveety]

Originally Posted by tompe

But giving a copy of the file is copyright infringement and theft and I saw that you wrote that it worked in a similar way in this case also. For me it is not obvious that it has to be so since people say that theft and copyright infringement is regulated by different types of laws (at least in Sweden, copyright infringement is not part of criminal law).

I have to check what holds in Sweden in this case. I have not heard about people being prosecuted for paying for things that they did not receive.

You wouldn't be prosecuted simply for paying for something you did not receive. You would be prosecuted for paying for something you knew was stolen. If I paid Amazon for a book, and didn't get it ... I have done nothing wrong. If I paid you for a book which I should by rights have paid Amazon for, and you had no right to sell me that book, and I knew that .... that is a crime.

Copyright infringement is not a crime in this country either. Receiving stolen property is a crime. Knowingly purchasing a file that you know is going to be illegally in your possession is potentially a conspiracy to commit a theft and possibly receiving stolen property (depending on whether or not the file was legally in the possession of the person who sold it to you). If you "purchase" a file from someone who is not supposed to sell it, and you knowingly deprive the person who does sell that thing from their profit ... that is a form of theft.

It can get confusing, but it's all a matter of (1) who holds the rights to the file, (2) who holds the rights to distribute the file, and (3) what the intent of each party is in transferring the file.

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by pshrynk

Trying to tack against the incipient flame war going on, I would probably search Fictionwise and Books on Board for the book you want in a format that you want it in. failing that, i would advise waiting for a while, since e-books seem to be gaining in popularity and are appearing in quite a few places, albeit slowly at times.

HEY!! Ricky and I both answered, and nicely too!

We may not be geniuses, but we know how to play nice.

[cynoclast]

Originally Posted by RickyMaveety

I crack DRM all the time.

Technically, this is a violation of the DMCA, and punishable, regardless of purpose or intent. Just an FYI. I thought it was interesting that you call what I was intending to do "absolutely and completely illegal" that technically was not up to the point of conversion, while you admit to doing the one thing in my plan that actually was illegal in the US yourself.

Originally Posted by RickyMaveety

However, I do not do it in order to file-share, or cheat the artist, author, or publishing company out of their profits. That would be theft, and I'm not willing to push the envelope that far.

Actually it wouldn't, it would be at worst a violation of the DMCA.

Though there may have been a few court cases where cracking DRM for personal uses was judged (by a judge & everything) to be legal.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by RickyMaveety

You wouldn't be prosecuted simply for paying for something you did not receive. You would be prosecuted for paying for something you knew was stolen.

That was what I meant. I must check with a friend who is a prosecutor to see what they do in these cases. I suspect they think that loosing the money you paid is enough punishment but I might be mistaken.

[RickyMaveety]

Originally Posted by tompe

That was what I meant. I must check with a friend who is a prosecutor to see what they do in these cases. I suspect they think that loosing the money you paid is enough punishment but I might be mistaken.

Well, over here, if you know (and that's the key word .... "know") that you are paying for stolen goods, then you have entered into a conspiracy with the person who has done the theft, and you have taken an action in furtherance of that conspiracy (by giving them the money for the stolen thing).

It would probably depend on the value of the property, but I have seen people prosecuted for lots of illegal purchases. For example, paying someone for kiddie-porn is illegal, even if you never receive the porn. Paying someone for sex is illegal ... even if you never actually have sex with the person. In the case of never getting the stolen goods, it's generally considered "solicitation" to commit a crime.

Again ... it's going to come down to the value of the goods, or the seriousness of the illegality of those goods (drugs, porn .... that sort of thing).

But, you know, with the authorities in this country practically going bonkers over digital piracy, I wouldn't put it past them to prosecute someone over something like this.