Kbook: My new favourite rip-off "publisher"

[Manabi]

Originally Posted by AlexBell

Let me go in a different direction.

If I put the attached licence page into ebooks I prepare for the MR library in future will it be effective in discouraging people to refrain from selling ebooks I prepare? Or would they simply remove the page?

If they leave the page in but sell the ebook anyway what redress would I have? I certainly couldn't afford to take them to court.

This is the first time I've looked at Creative Commons. Does the wording make sense? Is there a better way of putting it?

If they leave it in, or remove it, having it in should allow you to send a DCMA notice to Kobo about the books. There's plenty of sites out there that'll help you write an appropriate one. Even if you're not in the US you could do this, and most sites will respond to them, even if they're not in the US.

That said, it's not a guarantee Kobo will remove it. They most likely will, as failing to do so opens them up to liability too, but they may decide it's public domain and be willing to take the risk.

I'm not a lawyer, so don't take this as absolute legal advice though.

[darryl]

Originally Posted by AlexBell

Let me go in a different direction.

If I put the attached licence page into ebooks I prepare for the MR library in future will it be effective in discouraging people to refrain from selling ebooks I prepare? Or would they simply remove the page?

If they leave the page in but sell the ebook anyway what redress would I have? I certainly couldn't afford to take them to court.

This is the first time I've looked at Creative Commons. Does the wording make sense? Is there a better way of putting it?

It's a very difficult problem because we are dealing with so many jurisdictions. I was having a look at Project Gutenberg and noticed that they had gone a different way. And I suspect it would have been a huge problem for them. It may be worth emailing them to ask about their experience with the issue. I also wonder whether the Electronic Frontiers Foundation in the EFF would be prepared to provide some free advice about what can be done in that country.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by AlexBell

Let me go in a different direction.

If I put the attached licence page into ebooks I prepare for the MR library in future will it be effective in discouraging people to refrain from selling ebooks I prepare? Or would they simply remove the page?

If they leave the page in but sell the ebook anyway what redress would I have? I certainly couldn't afford to take them to court.

This is the first time I've looked at Creative Commons. Does the wording make sense? Is there a better way of putting it?

You can add it and most thieves won't notice or see it. I can help when/if you have to email Amazon--you can mention that the creative commons license is still in the book showing where the book was lifted. Amazon is very good about looking into things like that although they will take down any public domain book that is for sale unless a preface/study notes/etc has been added that stands under its own copyright (and they will determine if the front matter or study matter is bunk.)

It's quite likely that Kobo would also take the stuff down, but there is no way to contact them to report the issue that I know of (short of going through their regular CS).

[AlexBell]

Thanks for all your responses. I'll think about them for a while.

[crich70]

Originally Posted by AlexBell

Let me go in a different direction.

If I put the attached licence page into ebooks I prepare for the MR library in future will it be effective in discouraging people to refrain from selling ebooks I prepare? Or would they simply remove the page?

If they leave the page in but sell the ebook anyway what redress would I have? I certainly couldn't afford to take them to court.

This is the first time I've looked at Creative Commons. Does the wording make sense? Is there a better way of putting it?

Very nice licence Alex. Is it free for the rest of us to use in our uploads too?

[BobC]

Originally Posted by AlexBell

Let me go in a different direction.

If I put the attached licence page into ebooks I prepare for the MR library in future will it be effective in discouraging people to refrain from selling ebooks I prepare? Or would they simply remove the page?

If they leave the page in but sell the ebook anyway what redress would I have? I certainly couldn't afford to take them to court.

This is the first time I've looked at Creative Commons. Does the wording make sense? Is there a better way of putting it?

An observation - I assume you are not claiming any rights in the text of the book so it is the format and layout you are licensing under the CC licence. Perhaps you should make that clear as otherwise it's open for someone to say "how can this guy claim rights in a book published in 1726" as justification.

BobC

[murg]

The license is completely useless if it isn't protecting something that is copyrightable in your country.

In the US, this license has no effect, unless there is some original content, not just formatting.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by murg

The license is completely useless if it isn't protecting something that is copyrightable in your country.

In the US, this license has no effect, unless there is some original content, not just formatting.

While you cannot copyright formatting, the license notice DOES show where the document originated and that may be enough for a retailer to take it down. The "license" or wording could be more specific and actually state that the version was scanned/formatted for mobileread and is not to be resold or commercialized. There may not be any LEGAL standing, but again, if the thief isn't smart enough to take it out, it shows where they lifted it from and also generally shows there is nothing added that is unique such that it is worthy of being "sold."

[Manabi]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

While you cannot copyright formatting, the license notice DOES show where the document originated and that may be enough for a retailer to take it down. The "license" or wording could be more specific and actually state that the version was scanned/formatted for mobileread and is not to be resold or commercialized. There may not be any LEGAL standing, but again, if the thief isn't smart enough to take it out, it shows where they lifted it from and also generally shows there is nothing added that is unique such that it is worthy of being "sold."

And just to add: Kobo/etc. may decide to kill the seller's entire account if they get a couple of warnings about books with such warnings. Why? Because the odds are good the seller has probably done the same with at least one book that is still under copyright and Kobo wouldn't want to take that risk. Why bother when there's plenty of legit sellers for public domain works?

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by Manabi

And just to add: Kobo/etc. may decide to kill the seller's entire account if they get a couple of warnings about books with such warnings. Why? Because the odds are good the seller has probably done the same with at least one book that is still under copyright and Kobo wouldn't want to take that risk. Why bother when there's plenty of legit sellers for public domain works?

This has been my experience with other retailers. If they find someone uploading someone else's book (people really do steal books, change the cover and name and try to sell them. Sometimes they don't even change the name or cover. Ilona Andrews was giving away a short story on her blog. Someone uploaded the story, cover and all--Ilona Andrews on it, but thought it was somehow okay to sell it on Amazon since Andrews chose not to sell it.)

But at any rate, once an account has been proven to be stealing work from some other source, those accounts are usually closed.

[dickloraine]

I want to put the legal questions aside und try to approach it from a different angle: Kobo should not list such books for pay, at least not without stating it is in the public domain and available for free. Ultimately such scam damages the reputation of a platform. It should be in kobos interest to prevent its customers from such things. Customers will prefer places to buy, if they feel safe there. If I have to watch out for scam and fine printed legals, I will shop somewhere else.

[bgalbrecht]

Originally Posted by dickloraine

I want to put the legal questions aside und try to approach it from a different angle: Kobo should not list such books for pay, at least not without stating it is in the public domain and available for free. Ultimately such scam damages the reputation of a platform. It should be in kobos interest to prevent its customers from such things. Customers will prefer places to buy, if they feel safe there. If I have to watch out for scam and fine printed legals, I will shop somewhere else.

You do realize that a lot of the Big 5 publisher sell a large number of public domain books, some of them for $10 or more. Penguin Classics, in particular. The complaint here is not that these publishers are selling PD ebooks for money, is that they are taking ebooks created by people here, meant for free downloads, and selling them.

[crich70]

Yep. That is what gets my goat as well. We do the work to get them into shape and they make $ off our work without even giving us any credit or anything.

[AlexBell]

Originally Posted by crich70

Very nice licence Alex. Is it free for the rest of us to use in our uploads too?

So far as I know, but remember that I designed it after my first visit to the Creative Commons site and I'm certainly not an expert.

My purpose in posting it was to get feedback from those who know more it about than I do, and to see whether it's worth using. If you want it it's yours.

[AlexBell]

Originally Posted by BobC

An observation - I assume you are not claiming any rights in the text of the book so it is the format and layout you are licensing under the CC licence. Perhaps you should make that clear as otherwise it's open for someone to say "how can this guy claim rights in a book published in 1726" as justification.

BobC

But almost all original ebooks I've prepared for the MobileRead library have typos, and I correct them. I also change spelling from time to time (ankle instead of ancle for example) and make hyphen usage etc conform to modern usage. Does that not count?

I have seen an edition of one of Charlotte Perkins Gilman's stories which has been edited - I don't remember the details - and the editor clearly claims copyright on her version. Perhaps I should make it more clear that I have made some changes to the text.