Is SF dying? - Page 22

Barty · 02-13-2015, 06:51 PM

I don't follow SF closely but still enjoy reading it. I find many titles to try out by looking at the Hugo and Nebula nomination lists. So it is useful to me.

tompe · 02-13-2015, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barty

I don't follow SF closely but still enjoy reading it. I find many titles to try out by looking at the Hugo and Nebula nomination lists. So it is useful to me.

I usually try to read all short listed novels for Hugo and the Clarke Award. I usually read some of the shortlisted novels for Nebula and the BSFA award also.

The short list for the BSFA award was released recently and can be found here:

http://www.bsfa.co.uk/bsfa-awards-20...ist-announced/

FTL · 02-13-2015, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Bob

You're not alone in that; to say that the Wheel of Time nomination was controversial is something of an understatement, and I share your opinion on that aspect. My understanding was that the rules at the time permitted it (a "serialized work" loophole), but they might be revised to fix that. I don't know if they have been or not; does anyone else in the thread have that knowledge?

The rules can be changed only by a proposal put before the next Business Meeting, which will be at the 2015 Worldcon in Spokane. Anything passed at that meeting must then be ratified at the next meeting, which would be at the 2016 Worldcon in Kansas City MO.
The procedure is set up this way to reduce the chance of a small but vocal group swaying a business meeting into doing something it might later regret, and gives time for careful consideration of the implications of a rule change before it goes into effect.

shalym · 02-14-2015, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tompe

Asprin wrote the Myth books. Some of the Piers Anthony books are OK and readable. I did not say I did not like The Hunger Game. It was an OK read. But it was not a very good sf book. And Asprin and Piers Anthony do not write very good sf books either.

You do not seem to be able to grasp that just because you think a book is not very good you cannot like reading it. Asprin, Anthony and similar authors are often mind candy. But mind candy is fun to read sometimes but that does not mean that you vote for mind candy for the Hugos.

See...to me, whether I like a book or not kind of defines whether or not I think it is a "good" book. How do you define a "good" book?

Shari

Alpha o · 02-14-2015, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shalym

See...to me, whether I like a book or not kind of defines whether or not I think it is a "good" book. How do you define a "good" book?

Shari

Thank you. I read the synopsis for a book, and I'll read what appeals to me, rather than its public rating.

If I read anything that happens to be on a best seller list, it's usually non-fiction which I bought for subject matter, not rating.

JSWolf · 02-14-2015, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rizla

And what about The Martian and Ready Player One, both great books. Have they been recognized by the Hugo? If not, bin the Hugo as irrelevant.

But these two works and others I have mentioned do show that great works of SF do still appear and that the genre is far from dying. But for conventional SF as headed by the Hugo and other traditional deciders of what is good, the future is not so good.

The nominations for 2014 books are still open. So we don't know yet what books are going to be up for a chance at the Hugo awards.

JSWolf · 02-14-2015, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tompe

Yes, most people seem to lack the "skill" to distinguish between very good books and books that are very readable. So when you get a bestseller you will see the opinion of people that do not read so many book dominate. So of corse it is not strange that for bestseller books you will see mostly positive reviews.

What you need to do is to look at the reviews in places were people that read a lot of sf books review. And if you check there you will see that the book that won the year The Hunger was possible to nominate or vote for did get much better reviews than The Hunger Game.

But, I have to say that The Hunger Games is a much better book than The Graveyard Book. I've read The Graveyard Book and I don't think it was worthy of even being nominated for a Hugo much less win. I think it won because it was written by Neil Gaiman and not because the book was that good (which it wasn't). So yes, the Hugo awards are not about which book is best and deserves to win, but instead about which books are more popular and that means some books win that don't even deserve to be nominated.

DiapDealer · 02-14-2015, 12:48 PM

I've liked the Hugo winners that I've liked. But I didn't like the Hugo winners I didn't like. Much like I feel about other any other awards ... or best-seller lists ... or favorite lists ... or other readers opinions. No one else's zeal or disdain affects my own zeal or disdain.

One question though:

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrNefario

The Hugo, to my mind, represents my preferred genre to the rest of the world. I want it to go to something I can be proud of.

"The rest of the world" would be those who don't really care about (y)our preferred genre, though, no? Well represented or pride aside; no one other than the people who already care are going to care. Never understood why SF fans (of which I am one) seem to crave mainstream acceptance/approval of their "favorites." You discovered those favorites without approval from the mainstream, no? *shrug*

mr_nihilism · 02-14-2015, 01:19 PM

Sci-Fi will never die. It'll just come back to life as a android and inevitably revolt against mankind.

tompe · 02-14-2015, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shalym

See...to me, whether I like a book or not kind of defines whether or not I think it is a "good" book. How do you define a "good" book?

Shari

Really, all books you like you consider equally good?

I do not understand how anybody can think that.

Does not the difference between enjoyable fluff and mind blowingly good books have any meaning for you?

Alpha o · 02-14-2015, 06:17 PM

À chacun son goût

It's up to the reader to decide. What one person says is great, another might think it trash.
I got tired of hearing "it's a best seller, you are supposed to like it." I vote with my wallet.

You might rave over the latest best seller - I'd rather find a good book on the geological history of the Colorado Plateau. Both might be well-written.

eschwartz · 02-14-2015, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

But, I have to say that The Hunger Games is a much better book than The Graveyard Book. I've read The Graveyard Book and I don't think it was worthy of even being nominated for a Hugo much less win. I think it won because it was written by Neil Gaiman and not because the book was that good (which it wasn't). So yes, the Hugo awards are not about which book is best and deserves to win, but instead about which books are more popular and that means some books win that don't even deserve to be nominated.

I have to say that The Graveyard Book was much better than The Hunger Games... I say that because I actually like one, and not the other...

Also I am a huge fan of Neil Gaiman's work, and actually do think that all his books are actually that good.

But that is just my opinion, feel free to disagree.
Do not feel free to say I am not allowed to have my opinion.

JSWolf · 02-14-2015, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschwartz

I have to say that The Graveyard Book was much better than The Hunger Games... I say that because I actually like one, and not the other...

Also I am a huge fan of Neil Gaiman's work, and actually do think that all his books are actually that good.

But that is just my opinion, feel free to disagree.
Do not feel free to say I am not allowed to have my opinion.

I've read both books in full and I can say that The Hunger Games is the better book. But, I've also read The Ocean at the End the Lane and that too is much better then The Graveyard Book.

eschwartz · 02-14-2015, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I've read both books in full and I can say that The Hunger Games is the better book.

How does "I've read both books in full and I can say that The Hunger Games is the better book IMHO" sound? I assume that is what you meant...

jhowell · 02-15-2015, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschwartz

?.. Also I am a huge fan of Neil Gaiman's work, and actually do think that all his books are actually that good. ...

I am also a fan of Neil Gaiman. He and his wife put on a great show for Valentine's Day tonight in Tampa!

02-14-2015, 06:17 PM	#326
Alpha o Addict Posts: 282 Karma: 2603524 Join Date: Jan 2015 Device: Onyx Boox Darwin, inkBOOK Obsidian	À chacun son goût It's up to the reader to decide. What one person says is great, another might think it trash. I got tired of hearing "it's a best seller, you are supposed to like it." I vote with my wallet. You might rave over the latest best seller - I'd rather find a good book on the geological history of the Colorado Plateau. Both might be well-written. Last edited by Alpha o; 02-14-2015 at 06:19 PM.

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02-13-2015, 06:51 PM	#316
Barty doofus Posts: 2,549 Karma: 13089041 Join Date: Sep 2010 Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kindle Voyage	I don't follow SF closely but still enjoy reading it. I find many titles to try out by looking at the Hugo and Nebula nomination lists. So it is useful to me.

02-14-2015, 01:19 PM	#324
mr_nihilism Always been the caretaker Posts: 479 Karma: 1406369 Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Canada Device: Aura H2O, PW2	Sci-Fi will never die. It'll just come back to life as a android and inevitably revolt against mankind.