Is SF dying? - Page 18

fjtorres · 02-12-2015, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fbone

Who can carry a tune!

And then some.
Although I liked "Caitlin's" singing better. That required *real* acting talent.

Rev. Bob · 02-12-2015, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

Thanks. I was checking your GR list.

I'll add that one to be investigated!

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Thanks.
That one sounds promising...

AFAIK, these aren't available as ebooks yet, but I thoroughly recommend Robert Asprin's "Phule's Company" series. It goes a bit downhill around the time he acquired a coauthor, but they're on my "contact poison" shelf. (So named because I'm convinced those books have some sort of contact poison on the cover that compels me to reread them if I so much as touch the spine.)

fjtorres · 02-12-2015, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Bob

AFAIK, these aren't available as ebooks yet, but I thoroughly recommend Robert Asprin's "Phule's Company" series. It goes a bit downhill around the time he acquired a coauthor, but they're on my "contact poison" shelf. (So named because I'm convinced those books have some sort of contact poison on the cover that compels me to reread them if I so much as touch the spine.)

Oh, I have the Phule's books.
But I prefer the MYTH ADVENTURES...
Especially the early ones with the very insightful quotes:

"Anybody who says 'as easy as taking candy from a baby' obviously never tried doing it." -- R. HOOD.

Rev. Bob · 02-12-2015, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjtorres

"Anybody who says 'as easy as taking candy from a baby' obviously never tried doing it." -- R. HOOD.

I strongly deny ever having said that.

(Not that I disagree, but...)

pwalker8 · 02-12-2015, 08:18 PM

Robert Asprin is a bit like Anthony Piers in that the first several of a series can be a lot of fun, but he just keeps riding the series until people stop buying, long after he's run out of fresh ideas for the series. Loved the first four or five of the Myth Adventures and the Phule series. Funny, original and clever. Those are definitely on my list of books that I eagerly await to buy as ebooks, even though I have them in paper. I vaguely recall reading that, like Roger Zelazny, his ex got the rights to his works.

caleb72 · 02-12-2015, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

The overall dark theme was totally my impression and I double-checked with a reading buddy (even though I wasn't interested from the start). There is NOTHING about what I've seen/read about it that appeals to me.

I don't mind first person at all. I read it quite frequently. But I'm never going to intentionally wallow in darkness.

I believe you already know that darkness is my literary milieu.

I loved Hunger Games, but was surprised how dark it was for Young Adult fiction. I think I must have lost touch with how far you can go in that genre.

Haven't watched the movies yet.

pegasi&prefects · 02-12-2015, 08:58 PM

By the time I gave up on the Myth series, very very long ago, they had become less about humour or fantasy as about lecturing you on Asprin's theories of business and economics and how to tell if you have a drinking problem. I also got sick of the misogny and fat phobia and... Well, Aahz was never going to marry Skeeve, no matter how much I wished it.

Still loved Guido and Nunzio.

BearMountainBooks · 02-12-2015, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caleb72

I believe you already know that darkness is my literary milieu.

I loved Hunger Games, but was surprised how dark it was for Young Adult fiction. I think I must have lost touch with how far you can go in that genre.

Haven't watched the movies yet.

Ah, yes, I could have guessed.

I think the YA genre as a whole has been pushed much harder since Harry Potter. It's not just because of Harry Potter and the direction it went, but there's also a tendency to write more sex in YA today than there ever used to be. In the past I'd read YA to get away from the violence and the sex themes, but in the last five to ten years, that certainly hasn't worked. Not only is there more of all of that stuff, it has the angst that I hate. Twilight pushed a lot of darker themes as well and much of it has become the norm for YA.

I guess I'll start reading middle grade...

(I actually like middle grade and read it on occasions and it has nothing to do with themes--but it is lighter and more fun than many other genres and age-groups!)

arjaybe · 02-12-2015, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

I guess I'll start reading middle grade...

(I actually like middle grade and read it on occasions and it has nothing to do with themes--but it is lighter and more fun than many other genres and age-groups!)

Have you read Hiaasen's books for younger readers?

fjtorres · 02-13-2015, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

I guess I'll start reading middle grade...

(I actually like middle grade and read it on occasions and it has nothing to do with themes--but it is lighter and more fun than many other genres and age-groups!)

Give it a while and those will get dark and angsty too. Teen angst is supposed to be a rite of passage.

Rizla · 02-13-2015, 08:32 AM

I'm not mad about the Hunger Games trilogy. The first book was great. Fast-paced with good characterization. The second book was okay. It didn't get good until it repeated the hook of the first book. I didn't bother with the third book.

OTOH Harry Potter is amazing. Dickensian.

Perhaps YA SFF has taken off because it simplifies a genre that has increasingly vanished up its own butt. Instead of technology, culture, big spaceships, etc, it focuses on story.

I return to the point that the Hugo ignored The Hunger Games. This was clearly a very readable book. The sales prove it. The biggest SF award totally missed the biggest selling SF book of the decade. That says something. And Hugo should be embarrassed and taking a good look at itself.

Rizla · 02-13-2015, 08:52 AM

And what about The Martian and Ready Player One, both great books. Have they been recognized by the Hugo? If not, bin the Hugo as irrelevant.

But these two works and others I have mentioned do show that great works of SF do still appear and that the genre is far from dying. But for conventional SF as headed by the Hugo and other traditional deciders of what is good, the future is not so good.

BearMountainBooks · 02-13-2015, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arjaybe

Have you read Hiaasen's books for younger readers?

I've read a couple of his adult mysteries, but didn't know he wrote anything for ya or middle. Will have to check. Thanks.

catsittingstill · 02-13-2015, 10:40 AM

If you are looking for humor, allow me to recommend Terry Pratchett's Discworld books.

Ben Aaronovitch's books also have funny parts, though the funny is more the "voice" of the POV character than the situations. The first one is "Rivers Of London" in England and "Midnight Riot" in the US.

"A Civil Campaign" and "Captain Vorkosigan's Alliance" by Lois McMaster Bujold have some very funny parts, though if you don't like Bujold's work enough to read the whole series, you're not going to enjoy them as much, I think.

Rizla · 02-13-2015, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Give it a while and those will get dark and angsty too. Teen angst is supposed to be a rite of passage.

Most character development equals transcendence and transformation, so YA and rites of passage lends itself well to fiction. That's if the story includes character development.

02-13-2015, 08:52 AM	#267
Rizla Member Retired Posts: 3,183 Karma: 11721895 Join Date: Nov 2010 Device: Nook STR (rooted) & Sony T2	And what about The Martian and Ready Player One, both great books. Have they been recognized by the Hugo? If not, bin the Hugo as irrelevant. But these two works and others I have mentioned do show that great works of SF do still appear and that the genre is far from dying. But for conventional SF as headed by the Hugo and other traditional deciders of what is good, the future is not so good. Last edited by Rizla; 02-13-2015 at 09:37 AM.

02-13-2015, 10:40 AM	#269
catsittingstill Guru Posts: 643 Karma: 551634 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: Kindle 1.0.8, iPod Touch, Kindle Keyboard	Funny Books If you are looking for humor, allow me to recommend Terry Pratchett's Discworld books. Ben Aaronovitch's books also have funny parts, though the funny is more the "voice" of the POV character than the situations. The first one is "Rivers Of London" in England and "Midnight Riot" in the US. "A Civil Campaign" and "Captain Vorkosigan's Alliance" by Lois McMaster Bujold have some very funny parts, though if you don't like Bujold's work enough to read the whole series, you're not going to enjoy them as much, I think.

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02-12-2015, 08:18 PM	#260
pwalker8 Grand Sorcerer Posts: 7,196 Karma: 70314280 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Atlanta, GA Device: iPad Pro, iPad mini, Kobo Aura, Amazon paperwhite, Sony PRS-T2	Robert Asprin is a bit like Anthony Piers in that the first several of a series can be a lot of fun, but he just keeps riding the series until people stop buying, long after he's run out of fresh ideas for the series. Loved the first four or five of the Myth Adventures and the Phule series. Funny, original and clever. Those are definitely on my list of books that I eagerly await to buy as ebooks, even though I have them in paper. I vaguely recall reading that, like Roger Zelazny, his ex got the rights to his works.

02-12-2015, 08:58 PM	#262
pegasi&prefects Eleanor Beresford Posts: 62 Karma: 1016946 Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Adelaide, South Australia Device: Kindle Paperwhite	By the time I gave up on the Myth series, very very long ago, they had become less about humour or fantasy as about lecturing you on Asprin's theories of business and economics and how to tell if you have a drinking problem. I also got sick of the misogny and fat phobia and... Well, Aahz was never going to marry Skeeve, no matter how much I wished it. Still loved Guido and Nunzio.

02-13-2015, 08:32 AM	#266
Rizla Member Retired Posts: 3,183 Karma: 11721895 Join Date: Nov 2010 Device: Nook STR (rooted) & Sony T2	I'm not mad about the Hunger Games trilogy. The first book was great. Fast-paced with good characterization. The second book was okay. It didn't get good until it repeated the hook of the first book. I didn't bother with the third book. OTOH Harry Potter is amazing. Dickensian. Perhaps YA SFF has taken off because it simplifies a genre that has increasingly vanished up its own butt. Instead of technology, culture, big spaceships, etc, it focuses on story. I return to the point that the Hugo ignored The Hunger Games. This was clearly a very readable book. The sales prove it. The biggest SF award totally missed the biggest selling SF book of the decade. That says something. And Hugo should be embarrassed and taking a good look at itself.