The Kobo DRM-free epub fiasco

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

Nothing new, they convert all books (not just ePub3) to kePub and always have.

No, I bought some Tor books in december and january and they were just epubs. No idea what that kepub is anyway, considering I don't own a Kobo device, nor have any device that runs any kobo software.

Originally Posted by eschwartz

I would assume that anyone downloading the EPUB from Kobo's website would not be sideloading it onto Kobo's devices -- we can assume therefore that they would be putting it on a tablet, that does support EPUB3.
And chances are they know what they are doing anyway... (most people who don't know what they are doing just sync from the bookstore.
)

Saying that Kobo is trying to protect the buyer from doing stupid things is a ridiculous attempt at an excuse.

I think the majority that doesn't sync but download from the site doesn't have a kobo or move the book to their device using Calibre in the format they set up as default for their device...

I've no idea what epub types my various devices support... I only know the Kindle doesn't support it

[Purple Lady]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Currently they are selling the book to them and not allowing them to have it at all.
I don't think that constitutes a safer sales policy, considering that either way people will be upset, and since at least offering the EPUB3 means there is a chance it will all work itself out. Point-blank refusing them the book in any way shape or form (after telling them they can read it on their device) is guaranteed not to work...

At least usually when offering KEPUB-only books, they can say with a straight face that the buyer knows beforehand, only ecosystem devices are supported, not ADE.

ETA: I could be wrong (I don't have one) but I thought I heard that you could just download directly from the Sony device -- that was rather the/a point of Kobo support, wasn't it?





Sigh.

I would have thought it would be fairly intuitive that you all fall under the exemption of chances-are-they-know-what-they-are-doing-anyway (I might be mistaken?)...

And as is often pointed out, MobileRead members are not compatible with assumptions about the default state of the average ebook consumer.



I maintain my claim.

My Sony was one of the ones not updated to allow me to shop from the device, but I'm not surprised that the ones that can shop from the Kobo store are allowed to buy kepub only.

[BrodieKobo]

Hi all,

Thanks for posting this issue and for PeterT to reach out to me to raise this to my attention. It looks like we're having issues with the download option off our site and I've raised this with our R&D team to investigate root cause. The issue looks in particular to be happening to Tor.com books but may be happening on others.

If anyone is experiencing this issue with non-tor.com books can you please PM me the book/URL so we can investigate further?

Sorry for the troubles, we'll get this resolved ASAP.

thanks,

Brodie

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by BrodieKobo

Sorry for the troubles, we'll get this resolved ASAP.

A bold claim! But thank you.

The issue appears to be not a bug, but a design decision: that direct downloads of DRM-free EPUB3 files should not be permitted.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

The issue appears to be not a bug, but a design decision: that direct downloads of DRM-free EPUB3 files should not be permitted.

That's certainly the way Kobo CS presented it to me: "EPUB3 files are not able to be downloaded or sideloaded."

I would welcome any clarification or "unmuddying" of the waters concerning this undocumented policy, though. Especially RE buttons and descriptions that seem to contradict said undocumented policy.

[DrNefario]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

The issue appears to be not a bug, but a design decision: that direct downloads of DRM-free EPUB3 files should not be permitted.

It's still a bug that it shows the download button in the library, in that case.

[pssquirrel]

Originally Posted by BrodieKobo

Thanks for posting this issue and for PeterT to reach out to me to raise this to my attention. It looks like we're having issues with the download option off our site and I've raised this with our R&D team to investigate root cause.

Hi BrodieKobo,

Thanks for dropping in. So nice to have a Kobo rep taking a direct interest.

Is Kobo at all considering offering direct downloads of EPUB3?

I don't know what Kobo's grand plan is, but the impression I'm getting is that Kobo is moving from epub to kepub, and customers will eventually need to buy a Kobo reader or use the Kobo app to read books purchased from Kobo.

The impression I'm getting is that the only reason the "download options" info was added to the product pages is because the Sony orphans you accepted were getting frustrated when we started purchasing Kobo ebooks and found some of our newly bought ebooks could not be read on our Sony Readers because they were kepub-only. Refunds were promptly issued, and we were told to look for the Blackberry(?!) icon before buying a book because apparently the eReader icon only represents Kobo readers and not any other type of ereader. Since then "download options" have been added to the product pages. Thank you for this. Looking for "download option: EPUB" is much clearer than looking for the Blackberry icon.

In case you're wondering, I've downloaded EPUB3 from other sources, and I can read them on my Sony T2. I know that some EPUB3 features (multi-media?) are not supported by my Sony, but so far reading EPUB3 has not been a problem on my Sony and I suspect will not be since I read mostly straight text novels, which don't make use of advanced EPUB3 features.

So I'm wondering if Kobo is planning to continue supporting customers with non-Kobo readers -- which I would hope means adding support for downloading EPUB3 -- or if Kobo's goal is indeed to transition entirely to kepub.

Thanks!

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by pssquirrel

In case you're wondering, I've downloaded EPUB3 from other sources, and I can read them on my Sony T2. I know that some EPUB3 features (multi-media?) are not supported by my Sony, but so far reading EPUB3 has not been a problem on my Sony and I suspect will not be since I read mostly straight text novels, which don't make use of advanced EPUB3 features.

Thanks for pointing this out. I think many people are under the mistaken impression that epub3 automatically means it won't work on their reader. I know I have no trouble with any of the text-based (novels) EPUB3s I've gotten from B&N and Google using either ADE Desktop 2.0 or the RMSDK based epub app on my Nexus 7. I'm assuming your Sony T2 is RMSDK-based as well? That would mean that a big chunk of these EPUB3s might not actually be as "inherently" incompatible with eink devices as many think. Knowing how epub and epub reading systems are supposed to work, this doesn't really surprise me. *shrug*

Thanks again for verifying on an eink device.

[Fbone]

Is there an easy way to determine if a book is epub2 or epub3?

[doubleshuffle]

Originally Posted by Fbone

Is there an easy way to determine if a book is epub2 or epub3?

If Kobo let you download it it's epub2...

EDIT: Actually, the Kobo website says so when it's epub2 below the publisher info.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Fbone

Is there an easy way to determine if a book is epub2 or epub3?

Probably need to pop it open and look at the OPF file. There'll be a version attribute in the package tag. calibre's editor would let you see it pretty easily, if you use calibre. You could also use the online IDPF epub validator (validator.idpf.org). It will detect the version.

Or if you mean looking at Kobo's catalog ... if the download options don't specifically say EPUB2, it's probably EPUB3.

[Lynx-lynx]

Here's pics of two epub2 book info:

epub2 DRM
epub2 DRM free

Can someone give me the name/author of an epub3 book, and then I'll Edit my post to add that pic as well.

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Probably need to pop it open and look at the OPF file. There'll be a version attribute in the package tag. calibre's editor would let you see it pretty easily, if you use calibre. You could also use the online IDPF epub validator (validator.idpf.org). It will detect the version.

Or if you mean looking at Kobo's catalog ... if the download options don't specifically say EPUB2, it's probably EPUB3.

Thank you kindly. I was looking for a way to check any epub bought anywhere.

I'm too stupid to figure out Calibre editor so I went the IDPF route. Indeed, the little self-pubbed book I bought (and was refunded) at Kobo was epub3. Evidently, Smashwords allows authors to upload epub3s. I repurchased it at B&N and also received an epub3 and sideloaded it onto my Sony 650. It seems to work ok other than the cover missing.

[Jane12]

Originally Posted by Lynx-lynx

Here's pics of two epub2 book info:

epub2 DRM
epub2 DRM free

Can someone give me the name/author of an epub3 book, and then I'll Edit my post to add that pic as well.

If it's epub3 it says nothing at all -- no download options, nothing, it's just blank.

See my post #39 in this thread. I already posted pics.

[Lynx-lynx]

Originally Posted by Jane12

If it's epub3 it says nothing at all -- no download options, nothing, it's just blank.

See my post #39 in this thread. I already posted pics.

Of course I saw your post and forgot till you just reminded me.