The Kobo DRM-free epub fiasco

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

They are queued and should be added when calibre has spare time on its hands. i.e. it won't bring calibre to a crashing halt in the middle of your metadata operations or what have you, just because a background process found some books to import and decided it should have priority.

I haven't really timed the average wait... but yes, there is a small delay.

OK, I'll try it again. This time giving it an hour.

[eschwartz]

Well, it shouldn't take that long not unless you are very busy doing things in calibre.

If calibre is just sitting, it should take maybe a few minutes. The main difference is that it only operates during the moments calibre is idling.

[Marrella]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Can you please go back to the link for that eBook and copy the link and pate it here? Thanks.

Sorry, but I don't think this would be very helpful, because I just tried to download it again, this time using Firefox, which gave me back an error page. This is just stupid.

How can they not make sure that the downloads work no matter which browser you are using?

[doubleshuffle]

If the problem is browser-related, Safari seems to be the exception. Neither Firefox nor Opera nor Chrome work for me.

On the bright side, there IS a download button where there didn't use to be one, and it DOES work with Safari, so they're probably working on making direct downloads available for all. Just give them a year or two...

[Marrella]

Originally Posted by doubleshuffle

If the problem is browser-related, Safari seems to be the exception. Neither Firefox nor Opera nor Chrome work for me.

That's what I assumed, as so many people aren't able to download it. I should have tried Firefox right away, but I use to forget about it most of the time since I have said goodbye to Windows...

On the bright side, there IS a download button where there didn't use to be one, and it DOES work with Safari, so they're probably working on making direct downloads available for all. Just give them a year or two...

Yeah ... right. I think this settles it for me: I will only get free books from them in the future, in case the download doesn't work.

[jackie_w]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

You can set your My Kindle Content folder as your auto-add folder, and the DeDRM plugin will automatically handle the books as they come in.

This is true, but when I tried this many moons ago I found the whole auto-add folder feature, with its inherent auto-delete after adding, didn't really suit my personal workflow, especially if I nominated the Kindle Content folder. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with this calibre feature it's just that I'm a control freak when adding/deleting books).

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Also, make sure to set Kindle for PC/Mac as your default device at http://amzn.com/myk

I'm afraid you're guilty of assumption here. I'm an Amazon UK customer. My 'Manage Your Content and Devices' Kindle for PC device doesn't show a 'Default device' option, just a 'Deregister' option. Perhaps this is one of the many things offered in Amazon's alpha-service to its US-only customers. I guess my British pounds only get me the beta-service. Still, it could be much worse , other countries don't even get beta.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by jackie_w

This is true, but when I tried this many moons ago I found the whole auto-add folder feature, with its inherent auto-delete after adding, didn't really suit my personal workflow, especially if I nominated the Kindle Content folder. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with this calibre feature it's just that I'm a control freak when adding/deleting books).

I just think of downloading-books-with-K4PC as choosing books to add to calibre.

G-d knows there is no other reason for it to exist.

I'm afraid you're guilty of assumption here. I'm an Amazon UK customer. My 'Manage Your Content and Devices' Kindle for PC device doesn't show a 'Default device' option, just a 'Deregister' option. Perhaps this is one of the many things offered in Amazon's alpha-service to its US-only customers. I guess my British pounds only get me the beta-service. Still, it could be much worse , other countries don't even get beta.

That's stupid.
Sorry for the confusion. It is sometimes difficult to know when something random will totally not be offered outside the US.

[Sirtel]

I'm not in the U.S (although I use Amazon.com, my country has no Amazon store of its own), but I have the option to choose Kindle for PC as the default device. So it's not only for U.S. customers.

[Marrella]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

I'm not in the U.S (although I use Amazon.com, my country has no Amazon store of its own), but I have the option to choose Kindle for PC as the default device. So it's not only for U.S. customers.

That's because you are using Amazon.com. It's a store feature. We don't have it in the German Kindle store, either. I remember it being available for a short time, but then it disappeared and has never reappeared.

[ottdmk]

A couple of thoughts on all this:

1) The issue with EPUB-3 goes beyond whether the .epub in question has DRM or not. Correct me if I'm wrong, but currently the only e-ink epub renderer that has even close to decent EPUB-3 support is ACCESS.

So Kobo gets a book. The metadata states the book is DRM-free EPUB-3. What's Kobo supposed to do with this book?

Well, as has been mentioned previously in this thread, most EPUB-3 books are mislabeled. Kobo could just put up the download link. But what happens when the book *isn't* mislabeled?

Sure, the customer in question could be using a third party app on a tablet, or some program on a PC that will read EPUB-3. However, they could also be part of the not-insignificant Sony Reader customer base that Kobo just acquired. Or users of some other RMSDK based EPUB-2 reader. How do you calculate the odds? You want to maximize the percentage of the customer base that the product will "just work" for.

Kobo appears to have taken the conservative position of not offering EPUB-3 for download/sideload. A perfectly legitimate position, albeit one that's inconvenient for those of us around here who tend more towards the power-user side of the scale.

Now ideally, Kobo would have the infrastructure in place to validate every book they retail. However, I have no idea what that infrastructure would cost. In the case of DRM'ed books, I don't even know if it's all that feasible, as IIRC Kobo doesn't actually have the book files in that case.

2) In regards to the picture zooming issue: Isn't the problem on the RMSDK side? Kobos use RMSDK for sideloaded epubs (unless renamed or converted) and RMSDK doesn't zoom pictures. Unless I'm wrong?

If picture zoom is a RMSDK feature that Kobo hasn't implemented, then yes, blame Kobo for not fully exploiting the kit. If it's not, then I fail to see why Kobo should be blamed for implementing features in ACCESS that RMSDK lacks. Especially when you consider that the vast majority of their customer base likely never touches the RMSDK side at all.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by ottdmk

2) In regards to the picture zooming issue: Isn't the problem on the RMSDK side? Kobos use RMSDK for sideloaded epubs (unless renamed or converted) and RMSDK doesn't zoom pictures. Unless I'm wrong?

If picture zoom is a RMSDK feature that Kobo hasn't implemented, then yes, blame Kobo for not fully exploiting the kit. If it's not, then I fail to see why Kobo should be blamed for implementing features in ACCESS that RMSDK lacks. Especially when you consider that the vast majority of their customer base likely never touches the RMSDK side at all.

ADE/RMDSK does not zoom into images. I cannot speak for version 4.x of ADE, but the version RMDSK Kobo is using does not.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by ottdmk

A couple of thoughts on all this:

So Kobo gets a book. The metadata states the book is DRM-free EPUB-3. What's Kobo supposed to do with this book?

Convert it to a format that works best for Kobo devices/apps, and provide a link to the original drm-free epub3 so the publisher's/author's wishes to provide a drm-free epub are honored. That way people without Kobo devices (or with OSes that can't run their Desktop software) can retrieve the file and put it on a device of their choice -- as the publisher/author intended them to be able to do..

Either that, or do whatever they heck they want AS LONG AS THEY clearly indicate that this DRM-Free epub is ONLY being sold/provided for use with Kobo devices/apps or with their Windows/OSX Desktop Software.

Originally Posted by ottdmk

Kobo appears to have taken the conservative position of not offering EPUB-3 for download/sideload. A perfectly legitimate position, albeit one that's inconvenient for those of us around here who tend more towards the power-user side of the scale.

I agree. It IS a legitimate position. But only IF this position is made perfectly clear BEFORE a purchase. And as long as they don't provide a pretty blue button beside the DRM-Free EPUB3 books in my library that DOES imply I can download/sideload them (until I click it and get a 404 error of course).

The non-power-users are never going to see the download button for the DRM-free ePUB3 to get confused by in the first place. They're going to sync their new books to their device/app and go about their business.

[jackie_w]

Didn't the Sony PRS-T1 Adobe renderer have the ability to pinch-zoom images? I thought it did but I don't have mine anymore to check - or maybe I'm remembering it wrong.

[ottdmk]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Convert it to a format that works best for Kobo devices/apps, and provide a link to the original drm-free epub3 so the publisher's/author's wishes to provide a drm-free epub are honored. That way people without Kobo devices (or with OSes that can't run their Desktop software) can retrieve the file and put it on a device of their choice -- as the publisher/author intended them to be able to do..

From a business perspective I'm not really sure they can do that. Consumers tend to hold retailers responsible for any perceived flaws in purchased goods. What you're proposing sounds too close to "Caveat Emptor" then to any viable retail plan.

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Either that, or do whatever they heck they want AS LONG AS THEY clearly indicate that this DRM-Free epub is ONLY being sold/provided for use with Kobo devices/apps or with their Windows/OSX Desktop Software.

Isn't that what they did? I checked out the page for Karen Memory and no download option is listed. This seems like a clear indicator to me.

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I agree. It IS a legitimate position. But only IF this position is made perfectly clear BEFORE a purchase.

See above. I think Kobo has met this requirement.

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

And as long as they don't provide a pretty blue button beside the DRM-Free EPUB3 books in my library that DOES imply I can download/sideload them (until I click it and get a 404 error of course).

This is an unfortunate bug that I hope is reported and fixed as soon as possible.

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

The non-power-users are never going to see the download button for the DRM-free ePUB3 to get confused by in the first place. They're going to sync their new books to their device/app and go about their business.

Very true.

[pssquirrel]

Originally Posted by jackie_w

Didn't the Sony PRS-T1 Adobe renderer have the ability to pinch-zoom images? I thought it did but I don't have mine anymore to check - or maybe I'm remembering it wrong.

You're remembering correctly. My Sony PRS-T2 can pinch-to-zoom images, so Adobe RMSDK-based ereaders definitely are capable of zooming if the ereader-maker bothers to implement it.