Is SF dying? - Page 2

Ravensknight · 01-29-2015, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwalker8

The death of SF/F has been an on again/off again thing since the 80's. Basically, there is a lot of churn. Add in the fact that sub-genres come and go and there is a cyclical nature to the various genres (people move from SF to adventure to mystery and eventually back around) and it's pretty easy to assume that SF is dying when you see a 2 year drop. Especially if you have a specific sub-genre you like and people stop writing in it.

I've seen Fantasy go from Roger Zelazny to Tolkien knock offs to middle ages fantasy to SF/F mixes to vampire and werewolf romances.

Makes you wonder whats next, eh?

Rizla · 01-29-2015, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennyc

It's become mainstream.

Interesting point. I hadn't thought of it that way before.

Rizla · 01-29-2015, 04:24 PM

The problem with the OP's stats is that they are only for adult fiction. How many adults read young adult fantasy and sci-fi? Hunger Games, Harry Potter...And then there are the movies. There seem to be more sci-fi movies than ever before.

I agree there's a lot of dross in the conventional male sci-fi area these days. I don't read it anymore since Bank's died. But sci-fi and fantasy has branched out of that area.

Quexos · 01-29-2015, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catlady

If SF dies, let me know. I'll plan a party.

What do you have against SF?
There are things in this life that deserve our spite way more than SF, like censorship for instance...

jgaiser · 01-29-2015, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quexos

What do you have against SF?
There are things in this life that deserve our spite way more than SF, like censorship for instance...

You know we have a Politics and Religion forum, right? Can you take your complaints over there. kthnx.

Quexos · 01-29-2015, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgaiser

You know we have a Politics and Religion forum, right? Can you take your complaints over there. kthnx.

A statement was made here and I asked a question in connection with it. Not sure what "complaints" you are referring to.

Difflugia · 01-29-2015, 05:27 PM

There are still fewer authors writing traditional SF than I'd like, but I've been finding more and more backlist titles that were previously out of print. However, the last year or so has been the first time that I've been able to find as many new fantasy novels as I care to read. While I don't really know how the market's been treating authors, for me as a reader, it's rapidly becoming an embarrassment of riches.

rcentros · 01-29-2015, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrNefario

The adult SF sector declined more slowly than adult fiction overall (-7% vs -8%), and the juvenile Science Fiction/Fantasy/Magic category (who comes up with these things?) had a whopping 38% increase, which would surely indicate a rosy future?

That's what I was thinking. Those who used to read SF/Fantasy, have moved over to "Young Adult" "twinkly vampire" stuff. It's just a different classification, not really a different market. I would imagine -- eventually -- the "Twilight" stuff will fade out and so-called "real" SF will take its place again. Last time I was in a Barnes & Noble it looked like a whole big section was taken up with Twilight clones.

eschwartz · 01-29-2015, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quexos

A statement was made here and I asked a question in connection with it. Not sure what "complaints" you are referring to.

You do seem to harp on about being censored....

QuantumIguana · 01-29-2015, 08:37 PM

Adult Fiction
Action/Adventure 2,619 2,239 -15%
Fantasy. 8,615 7,526 -13%
Occult/
Psychological/Horror 4,474 3,329 -26%
Religion 4,925 4,174 -15%
Romance 34,585 30,885 -11%
Science Fiction 4,448 4,142 -7%
Suspense/Thrillers. 22,161. 20,111 -9%
General Fiction 36,314 33,524 -8%

I cut out the ones that had declined less than science fiction. I didn't have to cut much out. Should we ask if Action/Adventure is dying? Romance? Religion?

fjtorres · 01-29-2015, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuantumIguana

Adult Fiction
Action/Adventure 2,619 2,239 -15%
Fantasy. 8,615 7,526 -13%
Occult/
Psychological/Horror 4,474 3,329 -26%
Religion 4,925 4,174 -15%
Romance 34,585 30,885 -11%
Science Fiction 4,448 4,142 -7%
Suspense/Thrillers. 22,161. 20,111 -9%
General Fiction 36,314 33,524 -8%

I cut out the ones that had declined less than science fiction. I didn't have to cut much out. Should we ask if Action/Adventure is dying? Romance? Religion?

Those genres aren't quite as prone to hysterics and catfights as SF.

(Do note that the panic is over multi-year drops in the "official" numbers,not just the 2014 drop.)

Quexos · 01-30-2015, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschwartz

You do seem to harp on about being censored....

If you read that post again you will notice that "censorship" was just an example, "instance" is the word I used, the MAIN point being a question when someone seemed to strongly dislike SF hence my curiosity and ensuing question...

It is interesting that so much attention comes to my "instance" while so little (actually none so far) to my question. Someone says they will plan a party if a full genre of literature dies and NOBODY seems the least curious as to why?

crich70 · 01-30-2015, 03:49 AM

I think it's a cycle myself. You saw the same thing with movies in the past. In the 40's it was monster movies, then SF in the 50's, 60's musicals, 70's gritty action (Dirty Harry etc) and so forth. Books probably follow a similar cycle in popularity.

darryl · 01-30-2015, 03:52 AM

The data relied upon is very obviously badly flawed, and a terrible basis for prompting this type of discussion. However, there is of course no harm in talking about it. I don't this data is very useful for anything. Furthermore, I suspect that Sci-Fi is stronger than ever. I also think that, with the exception of Baen, it has become very much the province of the self-published authors. Perhaps Brad Torgersen's Sad Puppies 3 campaign referred to in one of the articles above provides some glimpse of one of the reasons for this.

pegasi&prefects · 01-30-2015, 04:57 AM

If voxday said the sky was blue, he'd probably add that it was orange until those women and SJWs knocked it out of the sky.

I can't remember the last time I bought an SFF book from a large publisher that wasn't YA dystopian. But I do buy micropress and self published SF. It might be rougher around the edges, but it also seems to have more energy. And, to be honest, a better price.

Mind you, I'm a pink shirt lesbian feminist female, so the death of science fiction is probably all my fault. Why, you're welcome, voxday!

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01-29-2015, 04:24 PM	#18
Rizla Member Retired Posts: 3,183 Karma: 11721895 Join Date: Nov 2010 Device: Nook STR (rooted) & Sony T2	The problem with the OP's stats is that they are only for adult fiction. How many adults read young adult fantasy and sci-fi? Hunger Games, Harry Potter...And then there are the movies. There seem to be more sci-fi movies than ever before. I agree there's a lot of dross in the conventional male sci-fi area these days. I don't read it anymore since Bank's died. But sci-fi and fantasy has branched out of that area.

01-29-2015, 05:27 PM	#22
Difflugia Testate Amoeba Posts: 3,049 Karma: 27300000 Join Date: Sep 2012 Device: Many Android devices, Kindle 2, Toshiba e755 PocketPC	There are still fewer authors writing traditional SF than I'd like, but I've been finding more and more backlist titles that were previously out of print. However, the last year or so has been the first time that I've been able to find as many new fantasy novels as I care to read. While I don't really know how the market's been treating authors, for me as a reader, it's rapidly becoming an embarrassment of riches.

01-29-2015, 08:37 PM	#25
QuantumIguana Philosopher Posts: 2,034 Karma: 18736532 Join Date: Jan 2012 Device: Kindle Paperwhite 2 gen, Kindle Fire 1st Gen, Kindle Touch	Adult Fiction Action/Adventure 2,619 2,239 -15% Fantasy. 8,615 7,526 -13% Occult/ Psychological/Horror 4,474 3,329 -26% Religion 4,925 4,174 -15% Romance 34,585 30,885 -11% Science Fiction 4,448 4,142 -7% Suspense/Thrillers. 22,161. 20,111 -9% General Fiction 36,314 33,524 -8% I cut out the ones that had declined less than science fiction. I didn't have to cut much out. Should we ask if Action/Adventure is dying? Romance? Religion?

01-30-2015, 03:49 AM	#28
crich70 Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,310 Karma: 43993832 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Monroe Wisconsin Device: K3, Kindle Paperwhite, Calibre, and Mobipocket for Pc (netbook)	I think it's a cycle myself. You saw the same thing with movies in the past. In the 40's it was monster movies, then SF in the 50's, 60's musicals, 70's gritty action (Dirty Harry etc) and so forth. Books probably follow a similar cycle in popularity.

01-30-2015, 03:52 AM	#29
darryl Wizard Posts: 3,108 Karma: 60231510 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Aura H2O, Kindle Oasis, Huwei Ascend Mate 7	The data relied upon is very obviously badly flawed, and a terrible basis for prompting this type of discussion. However, there is of course no harm in talking about it. I don't this data is very useful for anything. Furthermore, I suspect that Sci-Fi is stronger than ever. I also think that, with the exception of Baen, it has become very much the province of the self-published authors. Perhaps Brad Torgersen's Sad Puppies 3 campaign referred to in one of the articles above provides some glimpse of one of the reasons for this.

01-30-2015, 04:57 AM	#30
pegasi&prefects Eleanor Beresford Posts: 62 Karma: 1016946 Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Adelaide, South Australia Device: Kindle Paperwhite	If voxday said the sky was blue, he'd probably add that it was orange until those women and SJWs knocked it out of the sky. I can't remember the last time I bought an SFF book from a large publisher that wasn't YA dystopian. But I do buy micropress and self published SF. It might be rougher around the edges, but it also seems to have more energy. And, to be honest, a better price. Mind you, I'm a pink shirt lesbian feminist female, so the death of science fiction is probably all my fault. Why, you're welcome, voxday!