UK e-book prices to rise from 1st January 2015

[Josieb1]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

Indie books went up, but there was an option to eat the cost, so some may not have gone up. Then there is price matching that goes on and so for some books, Amazon may be matching a lower price elsewhere as some companies are slower to implement.

Do you class small independant direct selling publishers as Indies? I'm never quite sure what the term is supposed to cover. I buy from authors that self publish as well as publish with small independant publishers. I thought 'Indie' was just for self publishing.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Josieb1

Do you class small independant direct selling publishers as Indies? I'm never quite sure what the term is supposed to cover. I buy from authors that self publish as well as publish with small independant publishers. I thought 'Indie' was just for self publishing.

It is fuzzy.
In the UK press I've seen "independent" used to describe small to medium tradpubs.

The emerging definition seems to be that Indie refers to both self-pubs and very small ebook-savvy publishers. The problem is that quite a few successful self-publishers, having established a process to get their books to market, are taking on other authors as "customers" through non-traditional deals. (That is, contracts that don't demand life-plus-70 duration, are time-limited, and/or pay higher royalties.)

Self-publishing is fairly clear: an author acting as publisher under their own name. But authors don't have to publish under their own name and in some areas it can be beneficial to operate as a small publishing house even if the output only comes from the owner, under one name or many. Other non-trad approaches include author co-ops, (non-vanity) publishing services, and very small ebook-first or ebook-only publishers.

The dividing line is really on the business side as you can't tell from the outside what is a startup new press and what is an author doing business as a publishing house.

The author earnings folks try to distinguish selfpubs and single author publishing houses from the multi-author very small presses but acknowledge that many in the latter category are really self-pub.

Here, check this:

http://authorearnings.com/note-on-methodology/

Tradpub is usually easy to identify (by the contract terms) so indie is usually taken to mean, "everybody else".

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by Josieb1

Do you class small independant direct selling publishers as Indies? I'm never quite sure what the term is supposed to cover. I buy from authors that self publish as well as publish with small independant publishers. I thought 'Indie' was just for self publishing.

It is fuzzy. I personally lump in most small publishers because we run into the same barriers. But independent publishers often run their own sales/sites, as do indie authors. The big 6 are the last to sell direct, but are doing it too.

It's going to get harder to distinguish too because so many trad published authors are going 'indie' and either choosing a service to help with the back end of publishing or are doing the publishing themselves. Many more of us are starting to sell direct from our own sites because there are some advantages to direct sales.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter what we are classified as so long as the READER is happy with the product!

[Little.Egret]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

So how much did it cost the BPHs to get the EU to say that eBooks are not real books and to charge full VAT on them when in fact they are real books and should not have any more VAT charged then pBooks? This does smack of bribes.

They didn't have to do anything because standard VAT is the default.

Back then the BPH thought ebooks were totally unimportant and maybe multi-media was the way ahead. I got club CDs back then which didn't have a booklet or sleeve notes, it was an ebooklet on the CD. Music downloads of course paid at the same VAT rate as CDs.

That being so, different VAT rate require a test - Italy has just chosen "has it an ISBN" which is a gallant try but easily gamed when the product is "really" music or a video.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Little.Egret

They didn't have to do anything because standard VAT is the default.

Back then the BPH thought ebooks were totally unimportant and maybe multi-media was the way ahead. I got club CDs back then which didn't have a booklet or sleeve notes, it was an ebooklet on the CD. Music downloads of course paid at the same VAT rate as CDs.

That being so, different VAT rate require a test - Italy has just chosen "has it an ISBN" which is a gallant try but easily gamed when the product is "really" music or a video.

But by adding VAT, it causes eBook prices to rise and some could then be more than the paper edition. Thus lowering the value of the eBook. So I can easily see the BPHs lobbying for VAT on eBooks.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

Ultimately, it doesn't matter what we are classified as so long as the READER is happy with the product!

Yup!
What matters is the story.

Whether it comes to me digitally or on dead tree pulp is secondary.
Likewise whether it is indie or tradpub--the only real distinction there is whether the author is getting screwed. (Or the publisher tries to rip me off.)

One hopes authors have enough business sense not to fall for predatory deals but ultimately it is their own choice to make.

[Little.Egret]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

But by adding VAT, it causes eBook prices to rise and some could then be more than the paper edition. Thus lowering the value of the eBook. So I can easily see the BPHs lobbying for VAT on eBooks.

In what year ?

2003 ? 1993 ? 1983 ?

The BPH didn't think about ebooks and nor did their lobbyists back then.

and if adding up to 25% tops the paper price the ebook is overpriced.

[disconnected]

And the "fuzziness" of the line seems to be coming from both sides, like Witness Impulse or some such thing from Harper Collins.

[chrisridd]

Originally Posted by Little.Egret

That being so, different VAT rate require a test - Italy has just chosen "has it an ISBN" which is a gallant try but easily gamed when the product is "really" music or a video.

Apple doesn't require an ISBN for books sold via iTunes. Easily gamed indeed!

[rkomar]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

So how much did it cost the BPHs to get the EU to say that eBooks are not real books and to charge full VAT on them when in fact they are real books and should not have any more VAT charged then pBooks? This does smack of bribes.

It probably has more to do with not actually being able to buy an ebook, but rather buying a license to be able to access the data through software, which makes it more of a service. If they wanted to have them classed as books, they would probably have to give up the whole "we're selling you a license" deal, which I doubt they want to do.

[Little.Egret]

Originally Posted by chrisridd

Apple doesn't require an ISBN for books sold via iTunes. Easily gamed indeed!

You misunderstand, in Italy the books /without/ an ISBN would pay the higher VAT rate.

But a book titled _Beethoven's 9th since 1950_ with five complete recordings and many excerpts would pay the lower rate provided it had an ISBN.

[Little.Egret]

Originally Posted by rkomar

It probably has more to do with not actually being able to buy an ebook, but rather buying a license to be able to access the data through software, which makes it more of a service. If they wanted to have them classed as books, they would probably have to give up the whole "we're selling you a license" deal, which I doubt they want to do.

If the e-book was sold in physical form, say on a CD, (and this was tried) you would still only have a license to read it and forbidden to do more copying than required to do that. Buying a physical book in paper gives no right to copy it.

[rkomar]

Originally Posted by Little.Egret

If the e-book was sold in physical form, say on a CD, (and this was tried) you would still only have a license to read it and forbidden to do more copying than required to do that. Buying a physical book in paper gives no right to copy it.

The argument I was making has nothing to do with copyrights. Rather, that ebooks fall under the category of software, and are taxed as such.

[happysnapper22]

And there you have it the EU stepping in making life fair and giving you the right to pay ever more for everything...