Which one should I get now?

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Just because Mobi is sold outside of Amazon does not mean it's not obsolete.

It does if you actually take into account of the meaning of the word "obsolete." But I don't even care about this anymore -- call .mobi "obsolete" if you want. As long as I can still read this format on my Kindle and obtain books in .mobi format, I'm a happy camper. (And I have nothing against ePub either -- I've got four ePub readers. I'm not in either "camp.")

The fact that O'Reilly and many other publishers sell KF8 (and .mobi) formatted books, absolutely means that the Kindle is not a "closed system." (Neither is Kobo, by the way.)

I wish that, when someone asks which eReader they should buy, the "closed system" claim (for any of these readers) would just go away. There are lots of other comparisons that are valid -- why does the water always have to be muddied by one claim that isn't valid?

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

I'm probably a minority, but I like all of my books formatted the same. Same font, same justification, same spacing etc. Drop caps, florid letters etc. are fine, but give me consistency every time.

Not that I have any objection to you preferring the fancy formatting.

I agree with you here. While a well-formatted ePub book is more "feature-rich" than a well-formatted mobi book, this also means there are a lot more ways an ePub book can be messed up. Unfortunately I've bought enough of these poorly formatted ePubs to be leery of small publishers and self-published authors. If given a choice, I'll usually buy the Kindle version of that book now. I just recently bought a "3 book combo pack" that was on sale for 99 cents. I had bought the original book (or actually it was free), when it was still published by Simon & Schuster, and it was well-formatted (professionally published) in both ePub and mobi formats. (I wanted to compare the two formats, which is why I had one of each.) Now the books are self-published (I bought both, after starting with the ePub vesion) and they're both a mess -- but at least the ePub version was readable, and easily fixed in Calibre (for justification and line spacing and indentation). The ePub version is unreadable. Sentences cut in half and then indented oddly -- also has funky spacing. I tried to fix the ePub version in Calibre and it still ended up being a total mess.

[DaleDe]

call .mobi "obsolete" if you want.

don't assume that .mobi as an extension means that it is an actual mobi file. Also do not assume a .prc extension is actually a mobi file. Amazon messes around with extension a lot and misuses them at will. The internal format could easily be KF8 and still have the same extension as an actual mobi file from 10 years ago.

Dale

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

don't assume that .mobi as an extension means that it is an actual mobi file. Also do not assume a .prc extension is actually a mobi file. Amazon messes around with extension a lot and misuses them at will. The internal format could easily be KF8 and still have the same extension as an actual mobi file from 10 years ago.

If the book looks good and works well on my Kindle, it really doesn't matter to me how they (Amazon or another mobi or KF8 publisher) produced it.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

don't assume that .mobi as an extension means that it is an actual mobi file. Also do not assume a .prc extension is actually a mobi file. Amazon messes around with extension a lot and misuses them at will. The internal format could easily be KF8 and still have the same extension as an actual mobi file from 10 years ago.

Dale

Not aware of this. Can you give us some examples? I have bought a few mobi books from Amazon, but haven't delved into the details. I have always been able to just read the book.

Helen

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

Not aware of this. Can you give us some examples? I have bought a few mobi books from Amazon, but haven't delved into the details. I have always been able to just read the book.

Helen

A combination file (both Mobi & KF8) is usually given the extension of .mobi.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

Not that I have any objection to you preferring the fancy formatting.

Helen

I don't mind simple formatting at all. But one thing that does bother me is blockquotes. They just look very much off when both the left and right margins do not match. Mobi can only have an offset left margin. The right margin cannot be offset. ePub & KF8 can both have offset left & right margins. That looks and read so much better. This is something commonly used in a lot of eBooks.

It's the little things that make Mobi obsolete. The big things are just obvious.

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

Not aware of this. Can you give us some examples? I have bought a few mobi books from Amazon, but haven't delved into the details. I have always been able to just read the book.

Helen

That is by design. When you buy a book from Amazon they know exactly which hardware you own and will supply the correct book for your particular machine. By the way, the same book may have different extensions based on how it was delivered to you but they all work.

However, when you upload a book to Amazon for publication they want you to use KindleGen which will actually place multiple formats the same file. Then Amazon will take the file apart to deliver the format needed by the user. In some cases Amazon may even create a file format for the user, for example AZK (see our wiki) is a format used by Amazon to support Apple devices.

People who create books may need to spend extra effort in many cases to ensure that the various Amazon formats all work ok.

Dale

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by rcentros

I agree with you here. While a well-formatted ePub book is more "feature-rich" than a well-formatted mobi book, this also means there are a lot more ways an ePub book can be messed up. Unfortunately I've bought enough of these poorly formatted ePubs to be leery of small publishers and self-published authors.

Here's an example (though Feedbooks are well formatted and don't fall in the class of "poorly formatted). All six eReaders (the 2nd Nook was redundant) showing the same book. The two Kindles in mobi format, the other four in ePub. (The Kindle 4NT is slightly modified, narrower margins than available with factory settings.)

https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/sh...o2pkNaN3TbMUww

(Since the Kobo Glo was in poor focus, I've added a close up of its screen)

https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/sh...yX6Y_DGrilYhk8

You can see that both Kindles (using mobi) are well-formatted, without any attempt at using graphics. Clean and easy to read.

The text in the four ePub Readers (well three, since one Nook is redundant) is well formatted and easy to read also -- but note the special chapter headings. The Sony reproduces it perfectly, but both the Kobo and Nook manage to mess it up a little. Not a serious issue, but (again) Feedbooks produces well-formatted eBooks, imagine what happens when a self-publisher gets hold of those ePub features and really messes them up.

So -- again -- in some ways the limited so-called "obsolete" mobi format protects the self-publisher from himself. Although I've seen a few poorly formatted mobi books -- I've seen a lot more poorly formatted ePubs (like this one, displayed in all its publisher default "glory").

https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/sh...07sv2AL46l56Z0

EDIT: If you want to experiment with this book on your own readers, it's "Anne of Green Gables" available at Feedbooks in three formats ePub, mobi and PDF.

http://www.feedbooks.com/book/2776/anne-of-green-gables

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I don't mind simple formatting at all. But one thing that does bother me is blockquotes. They just look very much off when both the left and right margins do not match. Mobi can only have an offset left margin. The right margin cannot be offset. ePub & KF8 can both have offset left & right margins. That looks and read so much better. This is something commonly used in a lot of eBooks.

It's the little things that make Mobi obsolete. The big things are just obvious.

I think we are talking different things here. For me obsolete implies that it has no practical ways to use it. And that very few people actually do use it. Or environmental or other practical reasons not to use it.

For you perhaps it is just that you personally prefer not to use it? Or are unable to use it (which I don't think is the case).

There are possibly millions of mobi files still being distributed, both paid and free, legally and not, and so I again argue it is not by definition obsolete.

Helen

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by rcentros

Here's an example (though Feedbooks are well formatted and don't fall in the class of "poorly formatted). All six eReaders (the 2nd Nook was redundant) showing the same book. The two Kindles in mobi format, the other four in ePub. (The Kindle 4NT is slightly modified, narrower margins than available with factory settings.)

Actually, the eBooks Feedbooks formats are very poor. Bad things are being done under the hood.

.chapterHeader .translation {
  float:left;
  font-weight: normal;
  margin-top:38px;
  margin-left: -8px;
  margin-bottom: 0px;
  padding-right: 16px;
  padding-left: 5px ;
  padding-bottom: 0px;
  padding-top: 0px;
  font-size:26px;
  background-color:#FFF;}
                             
.chapterHeader .count {
  line-height: 100%;
  font-style:normal;
  font-weight: normal;
  text-transform:uppercase;
  font-size:94px;
  margin-right:18px;
  margin-top:-14px;
  margin-bottom: -20px;
  float:left;
  padding:0px;
  background-color:#FFF;}

Using px as a measurement is very bad form. We've already seen that Kobo ignores px. But these eBooks should not be using px anyway. Just changing px to em would not work well as that would change some things to be way too large. Feedbooks needs to figure out the closest em equivalent and fix things so they work.

So you'll need to pick a better created eBook to show off as the ones from Feebooks do not count since they break the rules in a very bad way.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Actually, the eBooks Feedbooks formats are very poor. Bad things are being done under the hood.

What's under the hood doesn't matter to me. What I see (and want) are well formatted eBooks that work well (have good links and Tables of Contents) in my eReaders. Feedbooks provides those. Many other publishers don't.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by rcentros

What's under the hood doesn't matter to me. What I see (and want) are well formatted eBooks that work well (have good links and Tables of Contents) in my eReaders. Feedbooks provides those. Many other publishers don't.

But they aren't well formatted because they break the rules and don't work where they should work. You do not use PX. It just isn't done. Sorry, but they are broken eBooks.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

There are possibly millions of mobi files still being distributed, both paid and free, legally and not, and so I again argue it is not by definition obsolete.

People often use "obsolete" for a product they -- personally -- don't like for whatever reason. It's a sloppy misuse of the word. It's meant to be a slur against an opposing product. I have trouble understanding this kind of partisanship. (Of course, I'm not big on taking sides with one political party or the other either.)

"Obsolete" means "no longer in use." The mobi format is widely used. Therefore it is NOT obsolete.

(Yes, I'm being redundant. Sorry.)

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

But they aren't well formatted because they break the rules and don't work where they should work. You do not use PX. It just isn't done. Sorry, but they are broken eBooks.

They're well formatted on my readers. I don't care how many rules you claim they break. I don't examine the code. I read the books.