Which one should I get now?

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

You are assuredly looking at at least one closed system right now, and the law of averages says a minimum of three.
DRM is absolutely a closed ecosystem, that is rather the point.
The most famous closed ecosystem is Apple, for obvious reasons.

The issue at hand is someone proselytizing their Kobo by saying the Kobo store is an open ecosystem and the Amazon store isn't.
Such lies should certainly not be present in the dedicated forum for advising inexperienced individuals which should be their first ereader.

I am not really understanding your point. I have never said Amazon was a closed ecosystem, but often it is for the novice, perhaps a little less open than epub readers. Especially or those of us in countries without public library lending of kindle format books.

I am a Sony fanperson, I admit it. I have an Aura HD and I haven't used it in well over a year so obviously not a Kobo fan.

Absolutely nothing against kindle or Onyx, etc. I bought my mother a kindle way back when. I have used both those and a few other more obscure brands while helping people deal with theirs.

With my Sonys I can buy books, sideload or download directly from the library, sort all of my collections immediately and precisely on getting the device, (none of my collections hop around in positioning BTW the stay where I have set them) no registration required other than Adobe for library books.

I have yet to come across an ebook I wanted that I couldn't borrow or buy, and read on my Sony, but I know that some exist.

And I can read Amazon books on my touchpad, my Surface Pro 3 or my desktop. Sometimes I do, just because I can.

For Canadians Amazon is less convenient, For Americans I think they are about equal. Amazon has a better business model IMO but Sony has never attempted to push stuff at us in the same way which probably contributed to their demise in the eBook market.

Please explain in greater depth why epubs are more or even as much of a closed system than anything else. Stores are available, library bowing is available, PD is available, and the selection is very wide.

Helen

[howyoudoin]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

true but the prevailing opinion of new writers is that DRM is necessary to enforce their copyright so they require it and Amazon does not permit any publisher but them to use DRM. Thus in a way it is Amazon's fault, or at least their business practice. By comparison Adobe will allow any publisher to use their DRM but they do charge for it.

Dale

Other bookstores are free to sell watermarked mobis which satisfies both requirements of (a) being compatible with the kindle, and (b) necessity of DRM.

Amazon's method of DRM is therefore not the only DRM compatible with the kindle if the argument is made that DRM is an unavoidable necessity.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by howyoudoin

Other bookstores are free to sell watermarked mobis which satisfies both requirements of (a) being compatible with the kindle, and (b) necessity of DRM.

Amazon's method of DRM is therefore not the only DRM compatible with the kindle if the argument is made that DRM is an unavoidable necessity.

Correct. "DRM" is not synonymous with "encryption". Fictionwise used to sell watermarked LIT and Mobi files, for example.

[JSWolf]

But if you do not want Mobi because it's obsolete then your only choice is to buy from Amazon. Nobody else sells KF8 eBooks.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Amazon didn't rebel. If Amazon had rebelled, they would be selling eBooks with NO DRM. The fact that Amazon is selling eBooks with DRM means that Amazon gave in to the publishers that want DRM.

What I don't get is why bother with DRM? Tor went DRM free and they have come out and said that going DRM free has not cause any drop in sales. Going DRM free for Tor means they can charge the same prices and make more money because they no longer have to pay for the DRM.

The difference, of course, is that Tor is a publisher and can choose to publish books without DRM, Amazon is selling other companies' products. You might as well ask why B&N or Kobo "gave into the publishers" and didn't go DRM free.

As it is, just about everyone who sells books -- ones that only come with DRM -- are using Adobe. Amazon "rebelled" and went their own direction. If Kobo's KePub is "Adobe-free," (I don't know if it is) than it appears they are following Amazon's lead here.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

But if you do not want Mobi because it's obsolete then your only choice is to buy from Amazon. Nobody else sells KF8 eBooks.

Why is Mobi "obsolete?" The Mobi books in my collection seem to be well formatted and "work" just fine for me. What features am I missing?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by rcentros

As it is, just about everyone who sells books -- ones that only come with DRM -- are using Adobe. Amazon "rebelled" and went their own direction.

That's rather a "revisionist" version of ebook history . Amazon have been selling Mobi ebooks since before ePub existed. Adobe are the Johnny-come-lately of the ebook world.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by HarryT

That's rather a "revisionist" version of ebook history . Amazon have been selling Mobi ebooks since before ePub existed. Adobe are the Johnny-come-lately of the ebook world.

Okay, sorry about that. So I guess I should say, "Amazon was the only one not coerced into using Abobe's DRM method."

But didn't Amazon use some kind of Adobe product at one time? PDF?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by rcentros

But didn't Amazon use some kind of Adobe product at one time? PDF?

Yes, they used to sell DRM-protected PDFs, but that was a VERY long time ago. Years before they bought Mobipocket.

[howyoudoin]

Mobi isn't obsolete. It is a perfectly good format for ebooks.

It seems that the only way to paint Amazon as a rebellious closed ecosystem is to continually narrow down the criterea every step of the way. One's preferences do not define the openness (or lack of) of an ecosystem.

There exists a way to read DRMed ebooks on the kindle that aren't purchased from Amazon. Therefore it is not a closed ecosystem. Amazon aren't responsible for the relative failure of publishers and bookstores to make use of that alternative.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by howyoudoin

Mobi isn't obsolete. It is a perfectly good format for ebooks.

It seems that the only way to paint Amazon as a rebellious closed ecosystem is to continually narrow down the criterea every step of the way. One's preferences do not define the openness (or lack of) of an ecosystem.

There exists a way to read DRMed ebooks on the kindle that aren't purchased from Amazon. Therefore it is not a closed ecosystem. Amazon aren't responsible for the relative failure of publishers and bookstores to make use of that alternative.

What it means, I would imagine, is that Amazon is hard to compete with. So the fears that Amazon, when it "gets control," would up their prices exponentially, are unfounded. Should that happen, it would open up the market for others to use a different DRM method for mobi that would work on Kindles.

And I have also noticed that more and more conditions have had to be added in an attempt to make Amazon a "closed system." Once you've watered it down that much, it's pretty much meaningless.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Yes, they used to sell DRM-protected PDFs, but that was a VERY long time ago. Years before they bought Mobipocket.

Okay. I just recalled that Amazon and Adobe had some kind of issue in the past. Sorry I wasn't clear on the timeline.

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by howyoudoin

Mobi isn't obsolete. It is a perfectly good format for ebooks.

It seems that the only way to paint Amazon as a rebellious closed ecosystem is to continually narrow down the criterea every step of the way. One's preferences do not define the openness (or lack of) of an ecosystem.

There exists a way to read DRMed ebooks on the kindle that aren't purchased from Amazon. Therefore it is not a closed ecosystem. Amazon aren't responsible for the relative failure of publishers and bookstores to make use of that alternative.

Actually Mobi is obsolete. It is based on HTML 3.2 from the 90's, no CSS and difficult to code in this day and age since most people never learned it. The only saving grace is that KindleGen accepts newer coding and translates it to the old 3.2 format. There are lots of things it cannot do but it is fine for simple books. I used to read Palm eBooks and they had no formatting at all beyond a paragraph but we were happy to get them.

Dale

[Josieb1]

Originally Posted by rcentros

Just curious, do most of these publishers publish in both mobi and epub formats?

Yes, they all do plus PDF as well. With some publishers a purchase gives all formats (I.e Dreamspinner Press) but for others (like AllRomance) a purchase only gets one format but it's your choice which format you take. You make the decision after purchase when you first download.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

Actually Mobi is obsolete.

Obviously mobi is not obsolete since so many still use it. Again, the definition of "obsolete" is "no longer in use; gone into disuse; disused; neglected; ..."

The technical specifications mean nothing, especially since so many applications insulate you from those specifications. You basically plug in a document into an application and -- voila' -- out comes a mobi file. And, since most books sold for eReaders are novels, what difference does it make if mobi doesn't support the newer specs -- which are mostly there for diagrams or pictures?

But none of this really matters. Even if mobi files were useless (they're obviously not) the fact that the mobi format is still in wide use means mobi definitely is not obsolete.

EDIT: I think it's interesting that even O'Reilly, who publishes only technical books, offers these three formats, ePub, Mobi and PDF.