Author sort

Anacleto · 01-13-2015, 07:04 AM

My problem is easy:
In Spanish we have first names with two words and last names with also two words, and almost all of our books have the right sort author name in metadata (like LN, FN), but when I import a book the sort author name in "Manage authors" is usually different from metadata (use like LN only the last word). I need something that transfer the sort author name from metadata to the sort author name in "Manage authors".

Example: Gabriel García Márquez --> García Márquez, Gabriel (metadata) turns in Márquez, Gabriel García (wrong).
Thank you.

Mi problema es sencillo:
En español tenemos el nombre que puede tener dos palabras, y el apellido que puede también tener dos palabras, y en casi todos nuestros libros el orden correcto de ordenación se guarda en los metadatos (como Apellidos, Nombre), pero cuando importo un libroel orden de autor que aparece en "Administrar autores" es generalmente diferente del de los metadatos (usando Apellidos, nombre). Necesitaría algo que copiara el orden de autor de los metadatos al orden de autor de "Administrar autores"

MSWallack · 01-13-2015, 11:53 AM

Anacelto: I don't have an answer for you, but I do have a question. As a non-Spanish speaker, how do I know when the middle name is part of the surname (last name) or part of the first name (or a true middle name)? If I saw Gabriel García Márquez I would assume (as you note) that the sort name should be Márquez, Gabriel Garcia. Is it true that with ALL Spanish names, the name in the middle should be treated as a part of the surname? If not, what is the general rule to determine whether the name is part of the surname or the first name?

BetterRed · 01-13-2015, 12:12 PM

@MSWallack - perhaps one would know because Garcia is never a given name, just as St is never a given name in the Anglosphere

Example: Madeleine St John should be St John, Madeleine rather than the John, Madeleine St that the swap algorithm produces, one must correct the sort name manually in Manage Authors.

Same issue with non hyphenated double barrel family names eg the Bonham Carter's.

BR

MSWallack · 01-13-2015, 12:54 PM

I didn't know that Garcia was never a given name. Can it be a middle name? I know people with a middle name that is their mother's maiden name. Also, while I recognize that St. is never a given name (though I've seen Saint as both given and middle name), I'm careful about making too many assumptions. I once assumed that "Van" in Eric Van Lustbader's name was part of his surname; he corrected me and explained that Van was simply his middle name and that his name should be sorted as Lustbader, Eric Van.

BetterRed · 01-13-2015, 01:18 PM

Why is that so many people at Mobileread do not understand simple words like 'perhaps' and 'maybe'.

Should I use a longer phrase like "I postulate that going forward, at the end of the day, and all things being equal, blah blah blah". In the manner of revered politicians, economists and media commentators

BR

MSWallack · 01-13-2015, 01:54 PM

Why is it that so many people at Mobileread feel a need to lash out reflexively at those who ask straightforward, honest questions and then try to engage in dialogue to broaden understanding of issues or of the world?

BetterRed · 01-13-2015, 02:10 PM

I was not lashing out - hence the <wink>.

But three times in two days my use of the words 'maybe' and 'perhaps' have seemingly been ignored.
IMO your "I didn't know that Garcia was never a given name." appears to ignore the word 'perhaps' at the beginning of my sentence, but perhaps I should have used 'rarely' rather than 'never'

Let's drop it - sorry to have caused any offense.

BR

MSWallack · 01-13-2015, 02:38 PM

No problem. I saw your original post in my email where the "wink" didn't show up. And I haven't slept much in three days because our new puppy screams all night. So I might be a bit grumpy. Sigh.

BetterRed · 01-13-2015, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSWallack

No problem. I saw your original post in my email where the "wink" didn't show up. And I haven't slept much in three days because our new puppy screams all night. So I might be a bit grumpy. Sigh.

:lol: And I'm not long out of bed, it's already 25°C, raining, heading for 35°C, and the damn frogs kept me awake half the night

BR

PeterT · 01-13-2015, 02:44 PM

And it's down around 0 F here, and thats before the wind gets taken into account

MSWallack · 01-13-2015, 02:44 PM

35°C huh? Well, if it makes you feel any better, the temperature here is supposed to be about -18° later today (not counting wind chill).

BetterRed · 01-13-2015, 02:54 PM

Humidity is 94% - who needs a sauna

Been dry for a while - hence all the frogs are singing their heads off. Where do they go when its dry?

Terisa de morgan · 01-13-2015, 03:31 PM

Well, on topic again (5ºC but sunny and dry, thank Goddess), BetterRed was right with García

It was a name at Middle Age, but now it's always a surname. If we're talking about Spanish names, in general, forget middle, last name or given name. Spanish names usually are two surnames (father and mother's first surname, mother doesn't lose her surnames after marriage) and the others are name. There're exceptions, of course (Pedro Antonio de Alarcón has two names (Pedro and Antonio), one surname (Alarcón) and "de" is a nexus, as Van or Von.

MSWallack · 01-13-2015, 04:10 PM

Thanks for the additional information. Of course, that information just makes me think of more things to ask. First, is the general rule regarding Spanish names limited to Spain or is it true in all (most?) Spanish speaking countries? Second, would a name like Pedro Antonio de Alarcón be sorted as Alarcón (under A) or as de Alarcón (under D)?

Related question: Should Spanish names that include an accent be sorted as if the accent wasn't there or should the accented letter move the name up or down in a sort order? So, for example (and I'm just making this up...), would Alarcón sort before or after Alarcot? I'd assume before unless the accented o comes after the unaccented o.

What can I say? I'm a metadata geek. A cold metadata geek. A cold metadata geek with a new puppy that doesn't want to sleep in his crate at night. Sigh.

Terisa de morgan · 01-13-2015, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSWallack

Thanks for the additional information. Of course, that information just makes me think of more things to ask. First, is the general rule regarding Spanish names limited to Spain or is it true in all (most?) Spanish speaking countries?

I think most but...

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSWallack

Second, would a name like Pedro Antonio de Alarcón be sorted as Alarcón (under A) or as de Alarcón (under D)?

A

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSWallack

Related question: Should Spanish names that include an accent be sorted as if the accent wasn't there or should the accented letter move the name up or down in a sort order? So, for example (and I'm just making this up...), would Alarcón sort before or after Alarcot? I'd assume before unless the accented o comes after the unaccented o.

Accent doesn't make any difference for sorting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSWallack

What can I say? I'm a metadata geek. A cold metadata geek. A cold metadata geek with a new puppy that doesn't want to sleep in his crate at night. Sigh.

As you can see, I answer but I'm not very eloquent (concise engineer geek here

)

01-13-2015, 07:04 AM	#1
Anacleto Junior Member Posts: 2 Karma: 10 Join Date: Aug 2013 Device: kindle 4	Author sort My problem is easy: In Spanish we have first names with two words and last names with also two words, and almost all of our books have the right sort author name in metadata (like LN, FN), but when I import a book the sort author name in "Manage authors" is usually different from metadata (use like LN only the last word). I need something that transfer the sort author name from metadata to the sort author name in "Manage authors". Example: Gabriel García Márquez --> García Márquez, Gabriel (metadata) turns in Márquez, Gabriel García (wrong). Thank you. Mi problema es sencillo: En español tenemos el nombre que puede tener dos palabras, y el apellido que puede también tener dos palabras, y en casi todos nuestros libros el orden correcto de ordenación se guarda en los metadatos (como Apellidos, Nombre), pero cuando importo un libroel orden de autor que aparece en "Administrar autores" es generalmente diferente del de los metadatos (usando Apellidos, nombre). Necesitaría algo que copiara el orden de autor de los metadatos al orden de autor de "Administrar autores" Last edited by Anacleto; 01-13-2015 at 07:09 AM.

01-13-2015, 12:12 PM	#3
BetterRed null operator (he/him) Posts: 21,722 Karma: 29711016 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Sydney Australia Device: none	@MSWallack - perhaps one would know because Garcia is never a given name, just as St is never a given name in the Anglosphere Example: Madeleine St John should be St John, Madeleine rather than the John, Madeleine St that the swap algorithm produces, one must correct the sort name manually in Manage Authors. Same issue with non hyphenated double barrel family names eg the Bonham Carter's. BR Last edited by BetterRed; 01-13-2015 at 12:17 PM.

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01-13-2015, 11:53 AM	#2
MSWallack Right, Except When Wrong Posts: 363 Karma: 4323767 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Indianapolis Device: Kindle Oasis 3 (sometimes iPad Mini).	Anacelto: I don't have an answer for you, but I do have a question. As a non-Spanish speaker, how do I know when the middle name is part of the surname (last name) or part of the first name (or a true middle name)? If I saw Gabriel García Márquez I would assume (as you note) that the sort name should be Márquez, Gabriel Garcia. Is it true that with ALL Spanish names, the name in the middle should be treated as a part of the surname? If not, what is the general rule to determine whether the name is part of the surname or the first name?

01-13-2015, 12:54 PM	#4
MSWallack Right, Except When Wrong Posts: 363 Karma: 4323767 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Indianapolis Device: Kindle Oasis 3 (sometimes iPad Mini).	I didn't know that Garcia was never a given name. Can it be a middle name? I know people with a middle name that is their mother's maiden name. Also, while I recognize that St. is never a given name (though I've seen Saint as both given and middle name), I'm careful about making too many assumptions. I once assumed that "Van" in Eric Van Lustbader's name was part of his surname; he corrected me and explained that Van was simply his middle name and that his name should be sorted as Lustbader, Eric Van.

01-13-2015, 01:18 PM	#5
BetterRed null operator (he/him) Posts: 21,722 Karma: 29711016 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Sydney Australia Device: none	Why is that so many people at Mobileread do not understand simple words like 'perhaps' and 'maybe'. Should I use a longer phrase like "I postulate that going forward, at the end of the day, and all things being equal, blah blah blah". In the manner of revered politicians, economists and media commentators BR

01-13-2015, 01:54 PM	#6
MSWallack Right, Except When Wrong Posts: 363 Karma: 4323767 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Indianapolis Device: Kindle Oasis 3 (sometimes iPad Mini).	Why is it that so many people at Mobileread feel a need to lash out reflexively at those who ask straightforward, honest questions and then try to engage in dialogue to broaden understanding of issues or of the world?

01-13-2015, 02:10 PM	#7
BetterRed null operator (he/him) Posts: 21,722 Karma: 29711016 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Sydney Australia Device: none	I was not lashing out - hence the <wink>. But three times in two days my use of the words 'maybe' and 'perhaps' have seemingly been ignored. IMO your "I didn't know that Garcia was never a given name." appears to ignore the word 'perhaps' at the beginning of my sentence, but perhaps I should have used 'rarely' rather than 'never' Let's drop it - sorry to have caused any offense. BR

01-13-2015, 02:38 PM	#8
MSWallack Right, Except When Wrong Posts: 363 Karma: 4323767 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Indianapolis Device: Kindle Oasis 3 (sometimes iPad Mini).	No problem. I saw your original post in my email where the "wink" didn't show up. And I haven't slept much in three days because our new puppy screams all night. So I might be a bit grumpy. Sigh.

01-13-2015, 02:44 PM	#10
PeterT Grand Sorcerer Posts: 13,511 Karma: 78910202 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Toronto Device: Libra H2O, Libra Colour	And it's down around 0 F here, and thats before the wind gets taken into account

01-13-2015, 02:54 PM	#12
BetterRed null operator (he/him) Posts: 21,722 Karma: 29711016 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Sydney Australia Device: none	Humidity is 94% - who needs a sauna Been dry for a while - hence all the frogs are singing their heads off. Where do they go when its dry?

01-13-2015, 03:31 PM	#13
Terisa de morgan Grand Sorcerer Posts: 6,628 Karma: 12595249 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Madrid, Spain Device: Kobo Clara/Aura One/Forma,XiaoMI 5, iPad, Huawei MediaPad, YotaPhone 2	Well, on topic again (5ºC but sunny and dry, thank Goddess), BetterRed was right with García It was a name at Middle Age, but now it's always a surname. If we're talking about Spanish names, in general, forget middle, last name or given name. Spanish names usually are two surnames (father and mother's first surname, mother doesn't lose her surnames after marriage) and the others are name. There're exceptions, of course (Pedro Antonio de Alarcón has two names (Pedro and Antonio), one surname (Alarcón) and "de" is a nexus, as Van or Von.

01-13-2015, 04:10 PM	#14
MSWallack Right, Except When Wrong Posts: 363 Karma: 4323767 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Indianapolis Device: Kindle Oasis 3 (sometimes iPad Mini).	Thanks for the additional information. Of course, that information just makes me think of more things to ask. First, is the general rule regarding Spanish names limited to Spain or is it true in all (most?) Spanish speaking countries? Second, would a name like Pedro Antonio de Alarcón be sorted as Alarcón (under A) or as de Alarcón (under D)? Related question: Should Spanish names that include an accent be sorted as if the accent wasn't there or should the accented letter move the name up or down in a sort order? So, for example (and I'm just making this up...), would Alarcón sort before or after Alarcot? I'd assume before unless the accented o comes after the unaccented o. What can I say? I'm a metadata geek. A cold metadata geek. A cold metadata geek with a new puppy that doesn't want to sleep in his crate at night. Sigh.