Aus Gov't report advises banning geoblocking

[GeoffR]

What I find interesting with ebook prices in New Zealand is that it is not all publishers that price higher here, only some.

Going by the ebooks I buy the worst offenders seem to be Hachette and Macmillan, their ebooks are often two or three times the UK or US price. But HarperCollins' prices are usually similar or even cheaper in New Zealand than in the US or UK, once exchange rates and discounting are taken into account.

It is hard to see how there are any real differences in costs to justify either a higher or a lower price for ebooks in New Zealand compared to the US or UK, it just seems to be different pricing strategies by different publishers.

It obviously has nothing to do with the cost of buying the New Zealand rights to the ebook, because sometimes there is more than one publisher selling the same ebook, so neither can have exclusive New Zealand rights, and yet one publisher still charges two or three times the price of the other.

[AnotherCat]

Originally Posted by jehane

Interesting. Are they still going through local publishers or are they able to source from foreign publishers? Though if the books are published under one publisher using different local imprints I can see where this might make no difference...

They are parallel imports so will be imported, via an overseas third party if the publisher's overseas office will not supply. There may be cases where a publisher overseas will supply to the parallel importer as well as their own local office or representatives, should they have those (the big ones do have), but I doubt it.

So a parallel imported item may in some cases have both the publisher's selling margin on it in the country of origin, plus the third party supplier's, plus the parallel importer's; despite that it still works out cheaper.

[AnotherCat]

Originally Posted by burnafterreading

first, electronic goods don't cost more than a fraction of a penny to send either next door or across the globe.

physical goods cost a bit to send, but the cost of shipping a widget has little to do with the selling price of the widget (we're talking bulk transport from factory to distribution, like for example Gibson guitars being shipped to the AU distributor). shipping from the USA to Hawaii is typically just as costly as to AU, since they're both just as far away and across an ocean. but few things are made in the USA anyways - now it's all mostly made in China. from China, shipping to USA is just as far and "complex" as shipping to AU.

so, why does it cost more in AU than in USA to buy the same made-in-China product? because it CAN be priced higher. basic business: maximize your profits...

I agree with this. As an example an acquaintance of mine here in NZ manufactures, imports, and exports from his business. He has both a local physical manufacturing and sales to the public facility and also sells online. I cannot name the product I will use as an example as it will identify him (he being the main supplier here) but...

He imports it from a country in Europe, pays for the shipping half way around the world and finds that he gets internet orders for that product from the same European country that he originally sourced it from. Apparently his price is cheaper than the retail price in the source European country despite the fact that he has the freight cost from and then back to Europe to absorb. It is not a cheap little thing to freight, typical shipping weight is close to 200kg (440LB)!!!

His price is set by his local market, the sale price in Europe for European sellers to the public is set in that market. His price is cheaper.

[burnafterreading]

Originally Posted by AnotherCat

As an example an acquaintance of mine here in NZ manufactures, imports, and exports from his business. He has both a local physical manufacturing and sales to the public facility and also sells online. I cannot name the product I will use as an example as it will identify him (he being the main supplier here) but...

there's no reason at all for me to guess http://www.perreaux.com/home/. back when i was into high-end audio, i thought about buying something from them if only because they're from NZ which makes them cool.

[AnotherCat]

Originally Posted by burnafterreading

there's no reason at all for me to guess http://www.perreaux.com/home/. back when i was into high-end audio, i thought about buying something from them if only because they're from NZ which makes them cool.

Hi, no it is not Perreaux. But interesting that you mention them.

If you are as old as me they may have been in Napier when you were looking at them. I seem to recall that they subsequently went through hard times, may have even shut up shop prior to restarting down in Dunedin (I may recall that incorrectly though) where they have been for quite some years now.

About 2 years back one of the big brown box retailers here started stocking Perreaux equipment but I see they are now clearing it out - I suspect much too pricy for their type of market, and still too pricey for me even at clearance prices .

EDIT: I should add that when I say "big brown box retailer" that they are minnows compared to those in North America.

[murg]

Originally Posted by burnafterreading

shipping from the USA to Hawaii is typically just as costly as to AU, since they're both just as far away and across an ocean.

The distance from the US mainland to Hawaii is a lot shorter than the distance to Australia.

[howyoudoin]

I haven't read through the entire thread, so pardon me if I raise a point that has been dealt with. Could it be possible that electronic books are priced higher in Australia simply to maintain parity with prices of physical books? Electronic texts are obviously cheaper to transmit anywhere, but if the prices reflected that it would gobble up the physical books market in Australia by virtue of being more affordable.

[burnafterreading]

Originally Posted by murg

The distance from the US mainland to Hawaii is a lot shorter than the distance to Australia.

so? there's still an ocean in the way. not like you can just drive your Peterbilt there. physical product still has to get shifted from road/rail to air/boat, and the operating costs of air/boat are much higher than rail, so that changes the picture.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by burnafterreading

so? there's still an ocean in the way. not like you can just drive your Peterbilt there. physical product still has to get shifted from road/rail to air/boat, and the operating costs of air/boat are much higher than rail, so that changes the picture.

I believe, though, that the US Mail is like the Royal Mail in Britain: it will deliver to any part of the country for the same price, so it's no more expensive to post a package from New York to Hawaii than it is to post it from New York to New Jersey.

[burnafterreading]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I believe, though, that the US Mail is like the Royal Mail in Britain: it will deliver to any part of the country for the same price, so it's no more expensive to post a package from New York to Hawaii than it is to post it from New York to New Jersey.

sure, but we're not talking about a postcard here. we're talking about bulky goods, like toasters or guitars or whatnot. on a per-item basis, lettermail is cheap. on a per-volume basis, it's probably way more expensive than a toaster or guitar to ship from NY to AU.

and a package sent through normal mail does cost more to send longer distances or to more remote islands (than the same package sent just a few cities away).

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by jehane

Sure, but those are not the products we are complaining about. Now explain the price differentials for the same electronic product delivered digitally, ie ebooks, digital music, software, etc.

The books you're complaining about, that *can* be bought for less by faking location are *licensed* to the local market as well as the original. Well, the issues I'm questioning isn't the manufacturing cost of the print edition but rather the cost of the license from the author or original publisher (plus the cost of staying in business). Digital or physical, the author wants to get paid. And get paid enough net to make it worth the transaction. (Note that in the recent EU VAT adjustment, the reaction of many authors selling direct was to simply stop selling to the EU as the cost of reworking their store for compkiance excessed the volume of sales.)

Again, I wonder if the license cost for the australian market is going to be only a proportional 6% of the US license.

I went and actually looked at the numbers (easy to find online, really) and for 2012 the trade book business in the US totalled US$16B while the Australian total ran US$900M (at your inflated prices) of which some 40% were imports. So, as far as local book vendors are concerned their market is actually 40% smaller than an equivalent population in the US.

Looking at it from the point of view of the original author (or his agent) licensing a book that got a typical low 4-figure advance, selling a regional license for US$100-300 is probably not an option as drawing up the contract alone is going to cost about as much. That 6% of US license cost doesn't look too reasonable for anything other than bestsellers...

So, looking from the outside, I'm going to guess that in addition to higher book prices, you folks also face a mid-list availability problem and that a good portion of those 40% imports are for books not available locally at any price.

I'm thinking that instead of arguing for circumventing geoblocks over price, a better case could be made over availability.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by burnafterreading

and a package sent through normal mail does cost more to send longer distances or to more remote islands (than the same package sent just a few cities away).

It doesn't in the UK. Packages sent by Royal Mail have a cost which is solely dependent upon their weight, not their destination (as long as the destination is within the UK.) It costs no more for me to send a package to someone who lives in the same village as me than to send the same package to the most remote Scottish Island. I don't know if that's the case in the US - perhaps someone can tell us?

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I believe, though, that the US Mail is like the Royal Mail in Britain: it will deliver to any part of the country for the same price, so it's no more expensive to post a package from New York to Hawaii than it is to post it from New York to New Jersey.

I think I once heard a story about someone posting bricks to the site of their new building, because that was the cheapest way to ship them there.

Ah - found it. 80,000 of them.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I don't know if that's the case in the US - perhaps someone can tell us?

Yes and no.
The current pricing scheme at USPS revolves around a handful of fixed-price boxes and envelopes. "If it fits, it ships."

http://www.practicalecommerce.com/ar...Rate-Shipping-

Everything else pays based on size, weight, distance, and shipping method (aka, priority). Some places can only receive mail by air or ferry (it's not just Hawaii and Alaska, Puerto Rico, Guam, and the Virgin Islands. There's also a ton of coastal island communities and small rural communities deep in the often neglected "flyover country" which only get ground deliveries.)

On the digital side, plenty of sparsely populated areas are limited to wireless or satellite internet or even dialup. Often at very high prices.

Not everybody lives in a major metro area with all the conveniences and low prices of highly competitive markets. Sometimes availability is the key issue. Sometimes the choice is between high local prices and a hundred mile round trip to save a few bucks.

[Apache]

USPS also has Flat Rate Priority Express. Envelope is $19.99 and boxes are $44.95. These are guaranteed next day by 12:00PM most locations. I think Hawaii and Alaska probably do not get the guarantee.
Apache