"Why Chromebook Pundits Are Out of Touch"

[bfisher]

I'm interested in the Samsung Chromebook. However, I sometimes want to boot linux from a USB stick. From time to time, I use a Crunchbang live USB distro with a Thinkpad, and find that very easy to use. Has anyone done anything like that with a Samsung Chromebook E5250?

[bullet]

Originally Posted by bfisher

I'm interested in the Samsung Chromebook. However, I sometimes want to boot linux from a USB stick. From time to time, I use a Crunchbang live USB distro with a Thinkpad, and find that very easy to use. Has anyone done anything like that with a Samsung Chromebook E5250?

Running Kbuntu Trusty via Crouton on my wife's HP Chromebook 14 for over 1 year now (originally Raring). Not quite what you are asking, but it does run to her satisfaction. She can get to Thunderbird and see her photos displayed as screen background and use Dropbox files locally. Grive does not work so waiting on Google for their promise to support linux with Google Drive...

Is this any help?

[bfisher]

Originally Posted by bullet

Running Kbuntu Trusty via Crouton on my wife's HP Chromebook 14 for over 1 year now (originally Raring). Not quite what you are asking, but it does run to her satisfaction. She can get to Thunderbird and see her photos displayed as screen background and use Dropbox files locally. Grive does not work so waiting on Google for their promise to support linux with Google Drive...

Is this any help?

Thanks very much for the information. At the moment, I'm thinking more about the live Linux aspect than a dual boot system (although I usually end up with a BSD and one or two Linux distros on my laptop , so the pointer to Crouton could be very helpful down the line). I am concerned about finding a live Linux distro that would be comfortable with the ARM architecture, and that would play nice with the hardware.

[Dopedangel]

http://www.pcworld.com/article/28641...op-window.html

With the ability to run linux in chromebooks as an app. Should allow to run calibre on it. I hope this year OEMs come out with chromebooks with better specs as chromebook gains more abilities. Running calibre was one of the major hurdles for me in adopting chromebooks as my main computer.

[eschwartz]

This doesn't appear to be anything other than a new face to crouton...

In fact, you still have to install crouton the same way as usual, this extension merely adds some graphical sugar to the process of running the chroot.

[frahse]

Originally Posted by Dopedangel

http://www.pcworld.com/article/28641...op-window.html

With the ability to run linux in chromebooks as an app. Should allow to run calibre on it. I hope this year OEMs come out with chromebooks with better specs as chromebook gains more abilities. Running calibre was one of the major hurdles for me in adopting chromebooks as my main computer.

See the Acer announcement.


Acer Chromebook 15

...available February at $249

[leaston]

As I'll be looking to replace my laptop at some point in the next few months, I'm beginning to look at alternatives now. Partly prompted by this thread, I have had a quick look at some of the latest Chromebooks on Amazon and it reveals prices virtually the same as entry level Windows laptops. I thought they'd be cheaper. Battery life seems to be quoted as marginally longer on the Chromebooks and apparently they boot in seconds. To be honest, neither of those is much of a selling point for me. I don't care if it takes 10 seconds or 60 to boot up.

Why would I buy a device that requires *mostly* online access to function fully (you truly can't edit spreadsheets offline?!) compared to something I can run full commercial apps with on or offline? Let's say I need to work offline for a day or two due to flaky or no Internet access and have a need to use graphics apps, office tools etc. How would a Chromebook manage this in reality?

If I want to edit a private document, the last place I'd do it is on a Google owned and run online app. I can already edit privately in Windows and easily encrypt my document, backing up to the cloud.

Even after reading the article and this thread, I'm baffled as to what benefit I'd get with a Chromebook that I can't get from even an entry level Windows lappy. Have I missed the point somewhere along the way?

[Sregener]

Originally Posted by leaston

Have I missed the point somewhere along the way?

Yes, I believe you have. I fix computers every day for a living. More than half of my work is cleaning viruses off personal computers. With very rare exception, they're running anti-virus software, often paid at $50/year or more. Yet those programs failed to protect them.

I also see the difference in performance between a bottom-end laptop and one with decent hardware. It's not just boot time - it's task time. Switching between windows, opening up applications... it all takes longer (sometimes frustratingly so) on a low-end machine.

If you hate/distrust Google, then a Chromebook is not for you. I personally don't have a problem with them, but I know people who do.

Your TCO with a Chromebook is going to be much lower than a Windows laptop. Initial price is only one factor.

90% of the people who walk into my store don't do much more than use a web browser. But they're spending hundreds of dollars on maintenance and repairs to keep their systems running the way it should.

That's why, when my old Powerbook finally died, I ordered a Chromebook.

[leaston]

Originally Posted by Sregener

Yes, I believe you have. I fix computers every day for a living. More than half of my work is cleaning viruses off personal computers. With very rare exception, they're running anti-virus software, often paid at $50/year or more. Yet those programs failed to protect them.

With good anti-virus software that has passed independent testing and a well configured firewall, I don't think the danger is quite as bad as you imply. I've been in IT for over 20yrs and am content with the commercial solutions for Windows (and a bit of common sense always goes a long way). There's no 100% safe way to protect against a virus, I understand that. Is Chromebook not susceptible to web based or other malware?

Originally Posted by Sregener

I also see the difference in performance between a bottom-end laptop and one with decent hardware. It's not just boot time - it's task time. Switching between windows, opening up applications... it all takes longer (sometimes frustratingly so) on a low-end machine.

Not necessarily, it depends what you're using it for surely? Web browsing, document creation, basic graphics editing, music, movies, occasional casual gaming and that sort of thing is what I had in mind. I still occasionally use an old Acer Aspire netbook with a Celeron processor and it copes fine with things like that for the most part. As a contrast, I've read one or two reviews from end users who level this exact criticism at the Chromebooks; laggy performance and delays in tasks.

Originally Posted by Sregener

If you hate/distrust Google, then a Chromebook is not for you. I personally don't have a problem with them, but I know people who do.

It's not that I hate them, I use their services daily. But, I'm trying to get my head around what I'm letting myself in for by using their online apps and expecting privacy. Let's say I'm writing a private and personal document. If I use a Google owned, web based word processor and save it to their cloud solution, is that data really private compared to writing it offline and encrypting it before uploading to the cloud? That's why I mentioned it. Let me reframe the question...does Chromebook have an offline method of creating, saving and protecting documents via any kind of encryption? With Windows, I can write it offline using some flavour of word processor, save with a password and then encrypt the whole document before backing it up to the cloud. If this isn't possible with a Chromebook, it would probably be a dealbreaker for me.

Originally Posted by Sregener

Your TCO with a Chromebook is going to be much lower than a Windows laptop. Initial price is only one factor.

What are the others? I guess the hardware will use less electricity having no cooling fans or hard drives, but I'm not aware of what other costs there will be with a laptop that a Chromebook doesn't incur. This could be a factor for me if the cost is significant enough.

Originally Posted by Sregener

90% of the people who walk into my store don't do much more than use a web browser. But they're spending hundreds of dollars on maintenance and repairs to keep their systems running the way it should.

Sorry, I should have said that I work in IT and am happy to do my own repairs and maintenance

[ApK]

Originally Posted by leaston

What are the others? I guess the hardware will use less electricity having no cooling fans or hard drives, but I'm not aware of what other costs there will be with a laptop that a Chromebook doesn't incur. This could be a factor for me if the cost is significant enough.

Some additional TCO savings potential:
Some people pay for support. I've brought in some pocket money by cleaning or rebuilding Windows systems for folks.

In the nominal use cases for a Chromebook, that situation is unlikely to occur, and the cure is a few simple quick keystrokes to power wash.

Generally, the Chromebook user experience is simpler, more limited, and more consistent, moreso than even a Mac, so the kind of user that may pay for training or instruction will encounter less need for it.

You say you do your own IT, which is great, but your own time is valuable, too.

I mess with my Linux box (converted Chromebook) far more than I mess with my pure Chromebook, and while I don't MIND messing with Linux, I do recognize the value of a simple appliance for some things.

And if you also do your wife's IT (as I do) then the savings are even greater!

ApK

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by leaston

With good anti-virus software that has passed independent testing and a well configured firewall, I don't think the danger is quite as bad as you imply. I've been in IT for over 20yrs and am content with the commercial solutions for Windows (and a bit of common sense always goes a long way). There's no 100% safe way to protect against a virus, I understand that. Is Chromebook not susceptible to web based or other malware?

It is linux.

Not necessarily, it depends what you're using it for surely? Web browsing, document creation, basic graphics editing, music, movies, occasional casual gaming and that sort of thing is what I had in mind. I still occasionally use an old Acer Aspire netbook with a Celeron processor and it copes fine with things like that for the most part. As a contrast, I've read one or two reviews from end users who level this exact criticism at the Chromebooks; laggy performance and delays in tasks.

Chromebooks are a browser-in-a-box, it is not that complicated a concept. If what you do can be satisfied with that, then you might consider a Chromebook. If not, don't.

On a similar note, do not buy a bicycle in order to go cross-country skiing.

[Anthem]

Originally Posted by leaston

Even after reading the article and this thread, I'm baffled as to what benefit I'd get with a Chromebook that I can't get from even an entry level Windows lappy. Have I missed the point somewhere along the way?

When viewed with a Spock-like adherence to strict rationality it can seem confusing.

A primary benefit of a Chromebook is the simplicity and security. There are huge swathes of people for whom even an entry level Windows laptop provides a level of functionality far beyond any requirements that they have ever had, have now, or will have. The Chromebook provides the basic functionality that they need, encapsulated in a familiar form factor and at a reasonable price, without 98% of the fuss of a busy and complicated Windows, OS X, or traditional GNU/Linux platform.

Another huge benefit is the cloud itself. Because everything is synced (including the apps on your Chromebook, your settings, layout, documents, and EVERYTHING not stored locally in Downloads) you can have your Chromebook experience back up and running in mere moments after purchasing a new one or even using someone else's Chrome OS device. No fiddling, no worries. And if you sign in to a Chrome browser on any machine, you get a near approximation of the Chrome OS experience, so you won't be completely lost even though you are on an unfamiliar platform. "Chrome" becomes the platform, what it is running on becomes largely inconsequential.

Finally, coming at it from a rational perspective just isn't the correct way to do it. In the end, people will use what appeals to them even when the justification for doing so is thin or nonexistent. My primary computer is a Mac. But I could do the stuff that I do on it with a far cheaper Windows computer, and I could do most of the things that I do these days (outside of work) with just a Chromebook or a tablet. But I still like my Mac and chose it for the irrational reason of loving Macs and having always loved Macs and simply preferring them without any earth shattering justification. At the end of the day, people like what they like. And it is hard to argue with that, because it is essentially irrational by nature, and reason can only go so far.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by Anthem

When viewed with a Spock-like adherence to strict rationality it can seem confusing.

A primary benefit of a Chromebook is the simplicity and security.

And also price, though that gap is closing, with Chromebook prices increasing, and Windows offering a free version (if I understand correctly).

When I got our Chromebooks, the price difference from a comparable Windows machine made the choice highly rational: need less, get less, spend less, fuss less.

[QuantumIguana]

One thing I like about the Chromebook is that updates are fast. When it indicates that there are updates available, you just restart and it is updated. Windows updates can take a very long time. Windows performance degrades over time, I get tired of running a defragmenter and cleaning up the registry. With the Chromebook I just restore it to a clean condition in moments. If you're asking "Why should I use a Chromebook?" well, perhaps you shouldn't. But I should, it does what I need it to do.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by leaston

Not necessarily, it depends what you're using it for surely? Web browsing, document creation, basic graphics editing, music, movies, occasional casual gaming and that sort of thing is what I had in mind. I still occasionally use an old Acer Aspire netbook with a Celeron processor and it copes fine with things like that for the most part. As a contrast, I've read one or two reviews from end users who level this exact criticism at the Chromebooks; laggy performance and delays in tasks.

At the same price point, you'll find the Chromebook much snappier than the Windows machine for web use. Where you're comparing local applications with heavier requirements to a hosted web app version then the Windows netbook would have the edge, but more and more native Chrome apps are being written which utilise the full power of the device.

Having said that, I do all the things on your list perfectly smoothly and happily on my Chromebooks.

Originally Posted by leaston

..does Chromebook have an offline method of creating, saving and protecting documents via any kind of encryption? With Windows, I can write it offline using some flavour of word processor, save with a password and then encrypt the whole document before backing it up to the cloud. If this isn't possible with a Chromebook, it would probably be a dealbreaker for me.

Your entire profile is encrypted by default on the Chromebook. So, assuming you're comfortable with the security provided by Google's cloud, then yes - by default any document you write on or offline is encrypted before backing up to the cloud.

If you don't trust Google's cloud, then there are a number of third party encryption solutions that can be added to Google Drive, such as CloudLock, which would appear to do what you need, but I've not tried them.

(And to answer an earlier question, yes, you can both create and edit spreadsheets offline.)

Originally Posted by leaston

What are the others?

I'd say the main saving is in time, so it depends on how you cost your time.

Chromebooks are so hassle-free. There seems to be no maintenance required at all - either to the operating system or to the apps. This is compounded when you move onto having multiple devices. I've now got a Chromebox and two Chromebooks, and the desktop, app launcher, toolbar shortcuts, etc. - the whole environment - is synchronised across all of them. That ability to seamlessly switch from device to device - even to have the same document open on both desktop and laptop, and edit it on either - is fantastic. Yes, you could set your Windows machines up to simulate this. No, it wouldn't be as smooth and intuitive.

It's always tricky to convince anyone of this during these discussions. If you can afford it, get a cheap Chromebook (e.g. the Acer CB3) as a secondary device and try one out. Even if it proves unsuitable for you generally, you know it'll be fine as a spare machine to have around the house for email and web browsing.

The bottom line with a Chromebook isn't what it can't do, or what Windows, Mac and Linux machines can do, it's that what the Chromebook can do it does very well and it doesn't bother you with a whole pile of other stuff that you don't really need to be doing.

For me, the Chromebook very quickly became the device I reached for first.

Graham