Recommendations for an LotR fan - not necessarily fantasy

[crich70]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Hey, Gang:

is the Dark Is Rising series suitable for an 11-year old boy? Has read the HP's and is finishing up Rick Riordan's series, the one about the son of Poseidon, et al. Promised to send him some DT books (his folks don't allow e-readers!), and am wracking my brain to ensure that I don't send anything inappropriate or above his reading level. Seems like a bright enough kid, folks lean heavily Christian in their personal belief system. Yes, I've already asked if he's read Chronicles, the Golden Compass books...so am now considering the Harper Hall Trilogy from McCaffrey, the Dark Is Rising quintology, and a few others. Suggestions welcome. He apparently favors fantasy over sci-fi and likes heavier (thicker) books within at least trilogies. I'm trying to avoid ANY overt graphic sexuality, which is the only reason I haven't already sent him Dragonflight to start him down that path. (I know, I know--I've even had a personal correspondence with Anne, about...15-20 years ago?...and I know she considers DOP sci-fi, not fantasy, but, hey, telepathic dragons? Cool enough, I'd think, for him when he's getting on about 13, mostly due to the "riders mate when dragons do" thing.)

TIA for any ideas,

Hitch

It should be. The books are based on Arthurian legend and the fight between the powers of the Dark and the Light. Most of the important characters that we see onstage are young teenagers with a few adults. There is no graphic sexuality in the series.

[meeera]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Hey, Gang:

is the Dark Is Rising series suitable for an 11-year old boy? [...] Seems like a bright enough kid, folks lean heavily Christian in their personal belief system.

Definitely appropriate, I read most of it aloud to my (now) 12yo a couple or three years ago. If his parents are the kind of conservative wingnut Xtians who freak out and start gathering kindling at any mention of Pagan mythology, though, he might want to hide them under his pillow.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by crich70

They can be found in one Volume at Smashwords:
Mary Stewart

I don't think a legal eBook version exists. And in that case, that makes this version illegal.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by crich70

It should be. The books are based on Arthurian legend and the fight between the powers of the Dark and the Light. Most of the important characters that we see onstage are young teenagers with a few adults. There is no graphic sexuality in the series.

Thanks. To me, even Dragonflight is pretty tame stuff, but still....I'm not his mom, or even that closely, in a familial sense, and I don't want to eliminate any possibility of giving him more broadening materials as he gets older. Thanks.

Originally Posted by meeera

Definitely appropriate, I read most of it aloud to my (now) 12yo a couple or three years ago. If his parents are the kind of conservative wingnut Xtians who freak out and start gathering kindling at any mention of Pagan mythology, though, he might want to hide them under his pillow.

OK, good. I thought so, but I've not read them. His folks aren't loons--as I said, they encourage his reading, didn't have any objections to HP or Riordan, so...{shrug}. But, as I said above, I don't want to risk accidentally giving him something that's not appropriate, which would cut me off from future book-giving.

I mean, IIRC, I started LOTR when I was 12, but I was fairly precocious; I'd read GWTW by then. I was thinking (no screaming, folks!) that giving him the Shannara series, as a warm-up, might also be age-appropriate. I mean, let's face it, Brooks is far easier reading than the much-denser Tolkien. And it would give him a good comparison, as he matures (Brooks versus the more complexly written and layered Tolkien).

Thanks, and (not to thread-jack) any other recs for his age group would be AWESOME. In fact--I do feel bad about threadjacking--I'll go start a new thread so that the OP can get recs for her mum.

Hitch

[meeera]

Originally Posted by Hitch

T
I mean, IIRC, I started LOTR when I was 12, but I was fairly precocious; I'd read GWTW by then. I was thinking (no screaming, folks!) that giving him the Shannara series, as a warm-up, might also be age-appropriate. I mean, let's face it, Brooks is far easier reading than the much-denser Tolkien. And it would give him a good comparison, as he matures (Brooks versus the more complexly written and layered Tolkien).

Eh, you'll not hear screaming from me- short of something on the level of American Psycho, I don't censor my kid's reading. He's welcome to plunder our shelves, the library, etc, to his heart's content.

But personally, and just from experience here as well as what I've heard from YA librarians, I'd be more inclined to recommend/gift more recent books. The Dark is Rising was very much an anomaly in terms of my kid enjoying older books - most SF "classics" and beloved books of my childhood leave him cold. Which I don't mind, really, since there is far more diversity of characters (and writers) and less entrenched sexism in more recent books, I find. Even the Pern series, much as I love it, has its issues. (I don't avoid exposing him to media with issues - but we do discuss and dissect the problems therein.)

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by meeera

Eh, you'll not hear screaming from me- short of something on the level of American Psycho, I don't censor my kid's reading. He's welcome to plunder our shelves, the library, etc, to his heart's content.

Actually, I was referring to all the screaming from entrenched true believers in Tolkien, who get extremely upset at the idea that Brooks' books sat on the bestseller lists for 5 months, because the first one, Sword, is, absolutely, an "homage" to Tolkien--there's simply no other nice way to phrase it. I've seen vitriolic arguments over Brooks' right to exist at ALL, essentially. BUT...I think that SOS and its successors in interest are really more age-suitable, in terms of readability and simplicity, than Tolkien, for the average 11-y.o. boy. That's all I meant.

But personally, and just from experience here as well as what I've heard from YA librarians, I'd be more inclined to recommend/gift more recent books. The Dark is Rising was very much an anomaly in terms of my kid enjoying older books - most SF "classics" and beloved books of my childhood leave him cold. Which I don't mind, really, since there is far more diversity of characters (and writers) and less entrenched sexism in more recent books, I find. Even the Pern series, much as I love it, has its issues. (I don't avoid exposing him to media with issues - but we do discuss and dissect the problems therein.)

Oh, I agree that the DOP series has some SERIOUS sexism issues. I mean, I don't think I'll ever forget reading a line--and this must be nigh on 30 years ago--with one rider (female) saying to another that "no MAN can ever clean anything" and being incensed at the idea that it's a woman's role--a woman who is, meantime, oh, gosh, busy running a weyr. What codswallop. I felt that Anne really misstepped with some of it, but, in fairness, her generation fought WWII. I can't get too upset with her.

Vis-à-vis sexism, frankly, fantasy is RIFE with it. LOTR, and, to be more up-to-date, Twifright, anyone? There's almost NOTHING more sexist than Twilight. ("I'm a teenage girl with no apparent appearance; I have no interests; I have no value in and of myself, EXCEPT, now I do, because two alpha males want me. I have zero after-school activities; I don't act in plays, I don't major in journalism, I don't do...well, anything. When I think my boyfriend dies/goes away, I mope in my bedroom FOR A YEAR. But, bygod, I can describe how much my BOYFRIEND SPARKLES over 200 times in the first 200 pages of the book!" Ye gods.)

I think that millions of kids still read and love Narnia; still read and love TBStallion; still read and love LOTR (in their teens). Hard to get much older than LOTR, in fantasy, really (unless you count A Christmas Carol, and IMHO, that's still a good read). I mean, hell....Holmes doesn't age as well, to be utterly heretical.

I don't think it's that easy to get away from sexism in the classic kids' stories (Peter Pan, anyone?), but frankly, it's more worrisome to me that you can't get away from it in stories written TODAY.

@Wolfie: if you mean, THE Mary Stewart, I'd say you're correct. Is that what we're talking about here?

Hitch

[crich70]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I don't think a legal eBook version exists. And in that case, that makes this version illegal.

Well it's listed under the name Mary Stewart and apparently she became a member of Smashwords on Feb 19th 2011. As Mary Stewart just died on May 9th 2014 I'm guessing that it was her who put the book out there in ebook format.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by crich70

Well it's listed under the name Mary Stewart and apparently she became a member of Smashwords on Feb 19th 2011. As Mary Stewart just died on May 9th 2014 I'm guessing that it was her who put the book out there in ebook format.

Crich:

I'm sorry...but that just seems bloody ODD to me. Mary Stewart, sans any fanfare, published one of her best-known series on SW? Isn't this the same "KG Studios" trilogy/published set that was taken down by Amazon in 2011, because they purportedly couldn't establish the rights? Someone here, in fact, reported it?

And didn't this same KGStudios also have a SW copy of "The Once and Future King," IIRC?

I'm just saying that it's downright odd that any entity with this particular set of ebook rights isn't on Amazon, has no discernible business or office, and seems not to exist, given Mary Stewart's pretty worthy writing career. And, Crich, you were in a discussion about this in 2011, here on MR, too. (As a reminder).

Hitch

[crich70]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Crich:

I'm sorry...but that just seems bloody ODD to me. Mary Stewart, sans any fanfare, published one of her best-known series on SW? Isn't this the same "KG Studios" trilogy/published set that was taken down by Amazon in 2011, because they purportedly couldn't establish the rights? Someone here, in fact, reported it?

And didn't this same KGStudios also have a SW copy of "The Once and Future King," IIRC?

I'm just saying that it's downright odd that any entity with this particular set of ebook rights isn't on Amazon, has no discernible business or office, and seems not to exist, given Mary Stewart's pretty worthy writing career. And, Crich, you were in a discussion about this in 2011, here on MR, too. (As a reminder).

Hitch

Well I'd think that Mark Coker would have pulled it offline if there were something wrong. Certainly he wouldn't want to be sued by her pbook publisher I wouldn't think. Is there something wrong with it? I don't know. Certainly there have been illegal copies of books put up by others in the past (1984 is an example that comes to mind). I honestly don't remember the 2011 discussion so I'll have to take your word for that. I think it is telling though that you say we had a discussion in 2011 about the book and here it is the end of 2014 and it hasn't been yanked. Certainly someone should have mentioned it to the author or her publisher by now and had it pulled if there were something wrong. Maybe she didn't want a wide distribution in ebook format? The woman was 97 when she died so she could have had someone do some ebook promotion and then had ill health interfere after that.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by crich70

Well I'd think that Mark Coker would have pulled it offline if there were something wrong. Certainly he wouldn't want to be sued by her pbook publisher I wouldn't think. Is there something wrong with it? I don't know. Certainly there have been illegal copies of books put up by others in the past (1984 is an example that comes to mind). I honestly don't remember the 2011 discussion so I'll have to take your word for that. I think it is telling though that you say we had a discussion in 2011 about the book and here it is the end of 2014 and it hasn't been yanked. Certainly someone should have mentioned it to the author or her publisher by now and had it pulled if there were something wrong. Maybe she didn't want a wide distribution in ebook format? The woman was 97 when she died so she could have had someone do some ebook promotion and then had ill health interfere after that.

Well, who knows what her estate does and doesn't know? If it's anything like other, older writers--from what I've seen--the rights and e-rights are a bloody mess. I would almost bet money that her estate hasn't even realized that the book is up there, legally or otherwise. And I'm sorry, I'll say it again: it's peculiar. And if it's a legal copy, WHY isn't it on Amazon, as KGSTudios asserts "worldwide rights?" What legit publisher in their right MIND would only put a bestselling trilogy up on SW, and NOT on Amazon? It's daft. All you have to have, to publish on Amazon, is a rights-reversion letter or a rights letter or even simply a rights EMAIL. This I know factually, as we deal with scads of rights-reverted works and backlist books. AND books from deceased authors.

That there was a version from KGStudios up there, on Amazon--and there appears not to be, now, is more telling than anything else we've discussed herein, IMHO. Given how low the bar for entry really is....

Just sayin'.

Hitch

[DrNefario]

Isn't it only four of the five books, too?

[crich70]

Originally Posted by DrNefario

Isn't it only four of the five books, too?

Yep. Her 5th book in the series isn't included.

[Shades]

Originally Posted by thewitt

The Sword of Truth is a very nice series

Not appropriate according to the OP. Good books in my opinion, but the first one does have bondage and the magic element might be too prevalent.

I would highly recommend David Eddings' books. The Elenium and Tamuli series especially.

[WillAdams]

Yes, _The Dark is Rising_ is considered juvenile / young adult fiction. Well-suited for an 11-year old.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Hitch

I don't think it's that easy to get away from sexism in the classic kids' stories (Peter Pan, anyone?), but frankly, it's more worrisome to me that you can't get away from it in stories written TODAY.

What I want to know is WHY do they have Peter Pan being played by a girl when the role is that of a boy? Now that's just wrong. I tried to watch the recent live version of Peter pan and found I had a problem seeing a girl play the part of Peter.

@Wolfie: if you mean, THE Mary Stewart, I'd say you're correct. Is that what we're talking about here?

Yes, The Mary Stewart and I've not seen or read about any legal eBook version of her Arthurian Legend books. I had a look around the net and did not find such. So yes, the version up on Smashwords is illegal as it's not authorized by Mary Stewart.