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[Terisa de morgan]

Originally Posted by Ruskie_it

Point is: yours is not a solution. Fact.

If you want to be accurate, your fact is incomplete . It's not a solution for epub.

[Terisa de morgan]

I only have a general comment: software is not a sentient entity. Software decides nothing, over Android, iOs, Windows, Linux, VMS or CPM 20/1. Software designers decide the software behavior. Poor software only does what has been told to do. Indeed, the real thing is: software does what you have told it to do, not what you want it to do.

[Terisa de morgan]

Originally Posted by Ruskie_it

However, you can tell what is consistent and what is not. And for sure, Kobo behaviour is not consistent: "swipe" always means "turn page forward", except when you are at the last page, where it changes behaviour and it closes the book. Which, again might be preferred, but it also might be not.

For me, the inconsistence wold be to stay at that page. It swipes the page and, as it is the last, it closes the book, in the same way you close your book after the last page, and don't keep it open in your lap.

[robko]

Originally Posted by Terisa de morgan

For me, the inconsistence wold be to stay at that page. It swipes the page and, as it is the last, it closes the book, in the same way you close your book after the last page, and don't keep it open in your lap.

I'll 2nd this. I've had it not close when I swiped or tapped at the end (was deliberately set that way, not an error or bug) and it confused the hell out of me.

[eschwartz]

When you try to turn a page that doesn't exist, it is not completely unintuitive that it doesn't turn the page... Turning the last page in a pbook doesn't close the book, it merely leaves me scratching futilely at the inner side of the back cover flap.

It is of course intuitive to press the home button when you are done an ebook, much analogous to closing a pbook.

Perhaps I am just used to the Kindle's way of doing it, but I cannot see why turning the last page should close the book.

I rarely turn the last page meaning to leave the book, generally it is because I don't realize there are no more pages. With a pbook is much easier to spot this.

Of course, the Kindle is not ideal in this regard either -- it opens a popup asking you to rate the book, even if it is a sideloaded PDOC.
Fortunately, this is not often an issue for me in any regard, as I can usually tell from the About the Author page that I have finished reading and there is no more content.
(I did have to setup a system where the EndActions get removed, so it wouldn't pop up earlier as well.)

[Ruskie_it]

Originally Posted by Terisa de morgan

If you want to be accurate, your fact is incomplete . It's not a solution for epub.

This is specious. If it is not a solution form something in particular, it is not a solution "overall".
Also, in this specific situation, OP posted a problem, which your "thing" does not solve, so, that is not a solution.

[Ruskie_it]

Originally Posted by Terisa de morgan

For me, the inconsistence wold be to stay at that page. It swipes the page and, as it is the last, it closes the book, in the same way you close your book after the last page, and don't keep it open in your lap.

Unfortunately, it's not matter of opinions in this case. Software interfaces theory and usability laws do not work that way. Either an interface does always the same thing responding to the same input, or it doesn't. That's consistency. Yours is not - sorry to say. As you say, "as it is the last it..." decides what the best behaviour would be, and acts accordingly, with a different action.
This might not be negative - in fact, you do like how it acts - but it is not consistent. As I said, this is not matter of preferences, these are just facts. So we're back to page 1: you may prefer the way kobo behaves, but that is not consistent.

[Ruskie_it]

Originally Posted by Terisa de morgan

I only have a general comment: software is not a sentient entity. Software decides nothing, over Android, iOs, Windows, Linux, VMS or CPM 20/1. Software designers decide the software behavior. Poor software only does what has been told to do. Indeed, the real thing is: software does what you have told it to do, not what you want it to do.

This is exactly what we were saying Terisa. It is just obvious that when we say "Software decides" it really is "Software designers decides that the software in that case should do"... it's so clear it shouldn't even be worth mentioning, but of course it is like you say. This does not change the kernel of the discussion.

[Ruskie_it]

Originally Posted by robko

I'll 2nd this. I've had it not close when I swiped or tapped at the end (was deliberately set that way, not an error or bug) and it confused the hell out of me.

The fact that you got confused still does not mean it is inconsistent, I'm sorry. It just means you didn't get it, for whatever reasons.
But actually, trying to turn page forward, and do nothing if this is not possible is more consistent than doing a completely different action.

[Lynx-lynx]

@ruskie-it it seems that you're going on and on for the sake of it.

'Tis the season for joyful tidings.

[Ruskie_it]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

When you try to turn a page that doesn't exist, it is not completely unintuitive that it doesn't turn the page... Turning the last page in a pbook doesn't close the book, it merely leaves me scratching futilely at the inner side of the back cover flap.

It is of course intuitive to press the home button when you are done an ebook, much analogous to closing a pbook.

Exactly this. I can't do what you ask me to, I don't do anything.
Not "I do something completely different which may, or may not be what you really wanted me to do".
One is the way "Unix" behaves, the latter is Windows/Mac style (I stick to this analogy because I have read you enough to know you will get the analogy).
It's not all the way bad that it gets back to home, as we can clearly see there is a lot of people who actually prefer it that way, I am not at all saying that nobody can like that, let's be clear. I'm just saying that this leads other people to be unsatisfied, because you have decided "it is best for all" to act that way. Which is, imo, untrue.

Perhaps I am just used to the Kindle's way of doing it, but I cannot see why turning the last page should close the book.

I rarely turn the last page meaning to leave the book, generally it is because I don't realize there are no more pages. With a pbook is much easier to spot this.

Again, exactly.
This is it: ebook readers (I mean softwares, not devices) have two input buttons to this regard, which works consistently in all the application on every device for every page but the last:
a) Move one page forward (this is the swipe left, or right button for non touch devices)
b) Close the book and put it on the shelf (this is the home button)

If you WANT to close the book, you press the home button. What happens here is that in case this is the last page, right button turns to be the home button. That one might like this best is possible. But it cannot be asserted that this is consistent.
You might or might not notice you are in the last page of your book. If you do, pressing home or swiping right is exactly the same. The fact that someone prefers swiping left does not, and can not imply this is better: it's a gesture we are talking about, doing one or another is the same, and certainly you can't say "Swiping left is faster because I am already doing this": it's not a "turn pages fast" contest.
If you do not notice you are at the last page, instead, problems arise. But while "doing nothing" does not harm you: you still have options to do everything: you want to close the book? Home. You want to go re-reading last pages (sometimes I do)? Swipe back.
"Closing the book" might harm you: you wanted to close the book, fine, you already did. But if you wanted to re-read last pages you have to re-open the book, you are at first page so use the keys to open up navigation, go to last page then swipe back... way more complicate.
Sure, this is not rocket science and the world does not rely on us being able to re-read that pages easily, no. I am just talking about "usability", and there are quite precise rules about that.

Of course, the Kindle is not ideal in this regard either -- it opens a popup asking you to rate the book, even if it is a sideloaded PDOC.

Oh no, Kindle is not better at all, from the usability point of view: simply replace "close the book" with "display that annoying popup".
On the contrary: I suspect there are way more people that at the end of the book want to go back to the shelf, rather than people that at the end want to let the world know how they rate that book (and only if it is not a sideloaded one). So we might argue Kindle does even worse. On the other hand, it's easier to "recover" from the unwanted popup: go back where you are is just a matter of tapping the X.

[Ruskie_it]

Originally Posted by Lynx-lynx

@ruskie-it it seems that you're going on and on for the sake of it.

'Tis the season for joyful tidings.

Who says it is not joyful for me to talk about it?
I studied usability of software, and I like to set things straight.

[Terisa de morgan]

Originally Posted by Ruskie_it

This is exactly what we were saying Terisa. It is just obvious that when we say "Software decides" it really is "Software designers decides that the software in that case should do"... it's so clear it shouldn't even be worth mentioning, but of course it is like you say. This does not change the kernel of the discussion.

It can be obvious for you. I have found too much people who think software growths alone and it's not necessary human action for it.

[Ruskie_it]

Originally Posted by Terisa de morgan

It can be obvious for you. I have found too much people who think software growths alone and it's not necessary human action for it.

Are you serious???

Ok then, point noted. Softwares do not grow alone, and they do not decide on its own: it's always their developers that make them do what they do.
Let's stick this for people who will come after us.

By the way:

Indeed, the real thing is: software does what you have told it to do, not what you want it to do.

This (change software with "computer") is one of the Murphy laws.

[Terisa de morgan]

Originally Posted by Ruskie_it

Are you serious???

Totally, I'm afraid

Originally Posted by Ruskie_it

This (change software with "computer") is one of the Murphy laws.

Perhaps, but it's one of the phrases I've had to repeat more times to software developers and customers in my professional life