HDX documents - sync and local storage

[cybmole]

do amazon deliberately obfuscate how this works ?

I have "documents" on my KF from two sources:
stuff that I've emailed to KF - thay appears in the "My sent to kindle" folder in the cloud drive,
and other stuff that I have just placed in cloud drive folder via their cloud drive app on my PC.

the former are still well behaved in that i can delete local copies, re download from cloud... etc as needed.

but with the latter, I now have some PDfs that maybe I have moved around or deleted via other apps like adobe or ES file explorer, and now they stubbornly refuse to download: KF "sees" them in cloud but when asked to get one it comes up with "can't conenct to server", (which I think actually means" that file is now where i thought it was so I'm stuck").
rebooting KF does not help with those. I can download them OK buy logging into to cloud with the silk browser, so there is nothing wrong with the cloud copies, it is just that the documents tab has its knickers in a twist

but I can drop a new book into cloud folder via PC, wait of it to show up & then KF will download it OK via the documents tab. It only has issues with older ones that maybe I have messed with via other apps, like I said before.

so I have these mysteries:
1. when KF fetches documents from cloud, via the documents tab, it puts those documents into a very obscure subfolder( something like android/data/amazon.com.something.... and gives them gobledegook names . why - when there's a perfectly good folder called "documents" on the KF !
Adobe reader can find them if they are PDF, by scanning the whole KF but finding them manually is a nightmare.
Adobe has an option to "move" a pdf, I am not sure how/if that confuses the amazon mechanism for tracking local doauments

2. KF seems to sync to my cloud folder records only when it wants to. I renamed & created several subfolders in my amazon cloud folder as a test, and moved a few things, all via login in with a browser, then waited for KF to catch up; but after an hour KF still thought stuff was in old locations !

3. Do the folder names in cloud drive matter at all, when it comes to downloading via the documents tab. I think - but could be wrong - that KF just scans everything in the cloud and lists any file type that it classes as a "document" irrespective of whether such files are in the cloud drive "documents" folder or in some other cloud drive folder or even in root folder of cloud drive

if anyone has grappled with this for longer than I have, I'd appreciate a brain dump of how it all works, please.

It "should" work like drop box ? drop a file into cloud via PC, download it to tablet when needed, no hassle, no delays, no renaming ... ?

[Anthem]

1. Why they decided to go with the on-device organizational structure that they have is not known to me. In general, Amazon takes the "no access to file system" approach that Apple does, so it does not surprise me that the files on-device are stored in strange locations managed by Amazon and not by the user. So I'm no real help here.

2. My Fire HDX syncs almost instantaneously with my Amazon Cloud drive. However, you can tell it to sync by hitting up Settings>Sync and Check for New Items (the top option in Fire OS 4.5.1).

3. The Amazon Cloud drive is NOT like your traditional file directory that you browse on your Fire like you would on a Mac with Finder or Explorer on Windows. It is basically invisible, but sorts and displays documents based on type. So, you can create a "Stuff" folder in your Cloud drive that has pictures, documents, etc., in it and those will all appear in the separate categories of your Fire for things like Pictures, Documents, etc.. But in the Cloud drive they will appear to be placed in the folders that you put them in.

On the Fire, Amazon cloud drive doesn't really work like Google Drive or Dropbox or OneDrive. The directory structure is more or less transparent to the Fire, as it will be told what types of files are stored in the Cloud drive, whether it should care about them, and where they will appear in the interface.

[cybmole]

1. agree

2. not sure that sync all forces a cloud drive snc. my test is/was, add/ move some folders around with browser logged into cloud drive. then asked KF to sync and then to show you docs sorted by folder. in my test it lagged and stayed with the older folder structure for quite some time. it has synced OK now.

3. yes, but when you look at cloud drive from a browser or with their PC app, I was assuming you see the real folder structure, your phrase " appear to be placed..." now has me worried.

I am sronglyu inclined to go with adobe app + sideloaded drop box for any pdfs and forget their cloud + documents option, at least that is fully transparent & dropbox always uploads & syncs quickly for me.

PS there are times when I've moved kindle camera photos via dropbox to PC rather than wait for KF to upload to cloud , & amazon to then download to my PC cloud drive folder as that seems to take an unpredictable time period, with no way to force a hurry-up

[Anthem]

2. I'm not sure either. I know that in theory the changes should propagate instantaneously or with a simple query for the Cloud files. When I touch the Docs section, for instance, new cloud files appear after about 1 second of opening the Docs section.

3. The directory structure you see in the web app for Amazon Cloud drive is the ultimate way that it is organized as far as we can know. Unless you can get access to one of their servers and find out how they organize it on their end and not simply how they present it to us on our end.

The delays you are experiencing with document syncing shouldn't be normal. Everything syncs instantaneously for me when using Amazon Cloud drive through the web app and in tandem with my Fire HDX. So, I haven't investigated potential slow downs or anything very much due to the fact that I haven't had cause to do so.

[cybmole]

Ok thanks for feedback:

1. could you specifically try the sort by folder / show by folder option in the KF docs tab ( not sure what it is called) , then add / move some cloud drive folders around via your PC & see how quickly the KF picks up the changed structure please

2. I have found that if i take a photo with KF camera, then wait for that photo to get a) synced to cloud & then b)synced from cloud into to cloud drive folder on my PC, that entire process can take 15 minutes, I am not sure if it possible to force an up-sync from KF to cloud or to force a down sync from cloud to PC

I don't have any great cause to dig deeper into this, other than curiosity. If I need something quickly, there's the ever reliable dropbox route

[cybmole]

Update - well I could not resist digging a little deeper, so I did som more tests with documents and folder s everything is syncing pretty quickly now. maybe now that I have removed the original clutch of documents that we sticking/refusing to download & put them back into cloud with new names, all is good.

I have not retested speed of photo upload but maybe the KF - settings, sync all options can slso force a pictures upload when needed, rather than waiting for some amazon schedule to kick in ?

[Anthem]

Originally Posted by cybmole

Ok thanks for feedback:

1. could you specifically try...

1. In the Docs you can only sort by Name, Type, and Recent. You can also view Docs using Collections (just like with Books). No Folder type views though.

2. I just tested it right now: I took a picture on my Fire tablet @ 9:04AM. About 5 seconds later I got a notification that the Auto backup feature pushed the picture to my Cloud drive. I then clicked the Pictures folder in my cloud drive (web interface) and then clicked the Fire Camera folder and it is in there, and says that it was just updated "less than a minute ago". And the Fire tablet now has it in both Camera Roll AND Cloud Drive.

So, all said, took less than 1 whole minute to take the picture, auto backup it, appears in cloud drive, appears in Cloud Drive on Fire tablet.

Hope your syncing speeds up!

[cybmole]

thanks for the update.
could be that the latest fire update improved this area. my moaning re delayed pictures is based on how it was pre-update

[Anthem]

Originally Posted by cybmole

thanks for the update.
could be that the latest fire update improved this area. my moaning re delayed pictures is based on how it was pre-update

Yeah, that it definitely possible.