UK e-book prices to rise from 1st January 2015

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by jbjb

Which still involves determining purchaser's location, keeping fairly onerous records to prove that location (for 10 years!) and working out which of the umpteen VAT rates applies to each sale.

He will need a page on the "shopping cart" part of the web site which has a drop-down list of countries, and a VAT rate associated with each one, yes, but being VAT registered myself (I sell software, but on CD, not downloads), I think you may be exaggerating the "onerous" aspect of it. It takes me about 10 minutes every quarter to fill in my VAT return. Just need a spreadsheet to do all the sums for you.

It's a pain - don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it isn't - but keeping records is a part of running any business, and this doesn't seem too bad, as record-keeping goes.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

Being VAT registered also requires at most a quarterly statement. MOSS is actually a lot more complex. (Just not as complex as actually registering for VAT in all the EU states!)

Is it? From what I've seen (and I've only glanced at it, so apologies if I'm mistaken) it's a list of sales and VAT per country, isn't it? You can easily generate that from a sales spreadsheet.

[jbjb]

Originally Posted by HarryT

He will need a page on the "shopping cart" part of the web site which has a drop-down list of countries, and a VAT rate associated with each one

No, from what I can see letting the customer specify his location is not sufficient. It would be up to my son to determine the buyer's location, backing it up with 2 separate but consistent pieces of evidence (such as IP address, bank location etc.) which he then needs to record and keep for 10 years. There are also a list of "presumptions" about location (to cover cases where, e.g. a customer is travelling, where it's the departure point that counts as the location) that he would be required to apply (or, if he wanted to override those presumptions he'd need *3* pieces of evidence to do so).

/JB

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by jbjb

No, from what I can see letting the customer specify his location is not sufficient. It would be up to my son to determine the buyer's location, backing it up with 2 separate but consistent pieces of evidence (such as IP address, bank location etc.) which he then needs to record and keep for 10 years.

Thanks - I hadn't appreciated that.

What type of software is your son thinking of selling? "App Stores" are apparently exempt from these new laws.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by HarryT

What type of software is your son thinking of selling? "App Stores" are apparently exempt from these new laws.

I hadn't heard that. Do you have a link? The only exemption I know about is that this only applies to automated sales.

[doctorow]

Originally Posted by HarryT

What type of software is your son thinking of selling? "App Stores" are apparently exempt from these new laws.

I haven't heard about this. I thought any company selling digital goods or services within the EU will need to comply to the VAT changes starting in 2015. It's going to be a administrative nightmare, in particular for small companies who are not VAT registered themselves (they need to be VAT registered in order to use the MOSS system which supposedly eases administration).

[MikeB1972]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

No.
It explicitly states that it does.
Right here:

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs....htm#new_rules

That is crystal clear, no?

Clear yes, but as non EU sellers have been responsible for charging VAT since 2003 then no change. No one has been actually doing it of course

Originally Posted by HarryT

Thanks - I hadn't appreciated that.

What type of software is your son thinking of selling? "App Stores" are apparently exempt from these new laws.

Not exempt, the app store is responsible for the handling of VAT as they are the one making the sale, Google is having to change to remit the VAT (https://support.google.com/googlepla...r/138000?hl=en) Apple has always handled VAT, self publishing via a portal (Amazon, Smashwords etc should be the same)

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

I hadn't heard that. Do you have a link? The only exemption I know about is that this only applies to automated sales.

I'll try to find the link. It was just an off-the-cuff remark in one of the articles I read, and may of course either have been wrong, or simply meant (which I suspect is more likely!) that the App Store does the necessary legal stuff for you.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by jbjb

No, from what I can see letting the customer specify his location is not sufficient. It would be up to my son to determine the buyer's location, backing it up with 2 separate but consistent pieces of evidence (such as IP address, bank location etc.) which he then needs to record and keep for 10 years. There are also a list of "presumptions" about location (to cover cases where, e.g. a customer is travelling, where it's the departure point that counts as the location) that he would be required to apply (or, if he wanted to override those presumptions he'd need *3* pieces of evidence to do so).

/JB

I thought it tax/VAT was based on where I am physically sitting at the time of purchase? So if I am in a different state in the US other then my home state, tax should be charged based on the tax rate for that state.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Tax evasion is a serious criminal offence, Jon. That really wouldn't be a terribly good idea.

Tax evasion? That sounds more like extortion evasion. I guess the bankers need to have their idiot investments insured.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by rcentros

Tax evasion? That sounds more like extortion evasion. I guess the bankers need to have their idiot investments insured.

Yes, tax-evasion. That's what non-payment of VAT is.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Yes, tax-evasion. That's what non-payment of VAT is.

At these rates, I contend, VAT is extortion. Especially when you consider that it used to prop up the politicians' cronies in the banking industry. It allows them to force citizens to pay the banker's bills when they fail (without, of course, sharing in their profits when they succeed). Kind of an anti-Robin Hood sort of thing.

[Moe The Cat]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

No.
It explicitly states that it does.
Right here:

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs....htm#new_rules



That is crystal clear, no?

That same link has a section titled "The effects of this are as follows:". It states that EU businesses supplying a business or consumer outside the EU will not charge VAT. The only exception is if that non-EU business or consumer "used & enjoyed" the service inside an EU country. So if Jon, living outside the EU, buys an ebook from an EU bookstore and he reads it outside the EU, he should not have to pay any VAT.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Moe The Cat

That same link has a section titled "The effects of this are as follows:". It states that EU businesses supplying a business or consumer outside the EU will not charge VAT. The only exception is if that non-EU business or consumer "used & enjoyed" the service inside an EU country. So if Jon, living outside the EU, buys an ebook from an EU bookstore and he reads it outside the EU, he should not have to pay any VAT.

According to the wording, it I go on vacation to an EU country, buy an eBook while on vacation and then take this eBook home to be "used and ejoyed" outside of the EU, I should not have to pay VAT. But knowing the way things will be, I would have to pay VAT when I should not. Of course, I could remote access my computer from home and buy it there. That would solve the VAT problem. That's not the same as a VPN as point of sale is from the computer here at home.

[Laine]

I am in Australia. I buy ebooks from Mills & Boon U.K. I get charged 20% VAT. In Australia our GST is 10%. What I think will happen is Mills & Boon will cut off access to those living outside the U.K. Just as Harlequin (parent company) cut off access to the USA site last year. I will then buy my Mills and Boon from Amazon who are a lot more organised than the chaos that is Mills & Boon Australia.
Just another example of how things don't work the way people think they will. The more moves made against Amazon the more it seems people are pushed into using it.