Using other authors as characters

[4691mls]

I think it might be fun to read a mystery/thriller where the characters were all named after/based on real-life mystery/thriller authors.

Re: Puller vs Reacher - I've read the first couple of Puller books and the first several Reacher books and based on what I've read so far, Puller doesn't strike me as being a Reacher clone. The books have a different feel - Reacher is more of a loner while Puller is still connected with former coworkers and family.

[bgalbrecht]

Originally Posted by DuskyRose

I've been reading Urban Fantasy lately, and came across the Paul Cornell book "The Severed Streets". He has Neil Gaiman as a character in the book, down to the description of the guy. And not just a cameo, but looking to be a return character in the next book.

While I'm sure he's gotten permission, since he thanks Mr. Gaiman in the front of the book, I'm not really liking it. When I hit upon it in the book, it bumped me out of the story, wondering if maybe I was reading the character's name wrong. So I checked the name and description to make sure it was actually the Neil Gaiman I was thinking of.

Anything that bumps me out of the story, IMHO, is a bad thing. I didn't need it, the story didn't need it, and I'm sure no one would have missed out on it if the author had just created a new character to fill that spot.

I just find it really annoying when they do that.

Paul Cornell talks about that at conventions, and also at io9.com. IIRC correctly, he's not planning on using Neil as a character in the future books.

As far as using other authors as characters under different names, Anthony Boucher did that in Rocket To The Morgue, which used a number of southern California SF writers as characters, and Larry Niven and David Gerrold wrote The Flying Sorcerors, which had a number of SF authors (usually with names based on the actual name) as gods in an alien pantheon, and the protagonist "As a shade of Purple Grey" was Isaac Asimov.

[Luffy]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

During the Hachete catfight he came out to openly engage Joe Konrath on his blog and he sounded more than a bit full of himself.
Stuff along the lines of "my last book sold more than you will sell in your entire life". Some defended it as banter...
(Shrug)

I pretty much gave up on gritty action heroes after the fourth or fifth Mack Bolan novel from the 70's. I generally prefer my comic book action in movies or comic books. Glad he's never made a cent off me.

I read that blog entry. I have the same reaction as you. I'm not tempted to read any of his books. OTOH I want to read Konrath's Jack Daniels books.

[BenG]

James A. Owen wrote a fantasy series with C.S Lewis, J.R.R Tolkien and Charles Williams as the protagonists.
It takes place in 1917 so it may be considered more as using historical characters than using one's peers.


https://www.goodreads.com/series/429...um-geographica

[BenG]

Also Paul Malmont's The Chinatown Death Cloud Peril has pulp writers Lester Dent and William Gibson involved in a pulp style adventure. H. P. Lovecraft, L. Ron Hubbard and others also make appearances.

Its sequel, The Astounding, the Amazing, and the Unknown, has Isaac Asimov, Robert Heinlein, and L. Sprague De Camp (that's him in my avatar) in an science-fictionish adventure when they were working at the Naval shipyard in Philadelphia. L. Ron Hubbard also is a secondary character.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by BenG

Its sequel, The Astounding, the Amazing, and the Unknown, has Isaac Asimov, Robert Heinlein, and L. Sprague De Camp (that's him in my avatar) in an science-fictionish adventure when they were working at the Naval shipyard in Philadelphia. L. Ron Hubbard also is a secondary character.

I'll have to track that one down.
I hope Hubbard took a good beating in it.

[Bookworm_Girl]

I like the Jane Austen mystery series by Stephanie Barron. Jane is an amateur detective solving murders and other crimes in the early nineteenth century.

The young adult fantasy series, The Secrets of the Immortal Nicholas Flamel, by Michael Scott has several characters from history including John Dee, Machiavelli, Shakespeare, Joan of Arc, and the Count of St. Germain.

I liked Drood by Dan Simmons which features Charles Dickens and Wilkie Collins.

[BenG]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

I'll have to track that one down.
I hope Hubbard took a good beating in it.

I read the sequel first with no problem except for a couple of references that I expected to be part of the plot and I was puzzled when nothing came of it. Then when I read the earlier book I realized it was a reference to something that happened in that story

Gibson and Dent show up in the second book also.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by BenG

I read the sequel first with no problem except for a couple of references that I expected to be part of the plot and I was puzzled when nothing came of it. Then when I read the earlier book I realized it was a reference to something that happened in that story

Gibson and Dent show up in the second book also.

Ah, so its a series.
Okay, I'll track'em both.
Thanks.

[leebase]

David Baldacci clearly ripped off Jack Reacher in his John Puller character and books. Thing is...I'm a fan of both series and both authors. I don't know what possessed Baldacci to do this, but IMHO, he clearly copied the character. Even then name is obvious. Jack becomes John and Reacher becomes Puller. And it's not just the names but so much about the character himself....both former military police.

Reminds me of who Tv shows come in pairs or threes. At the same time. Right now there are two fairy tale based tv shows: Grimm and Once Upon a Time. They debuted at the same time. Clearly one network got wind of the idea and put out a directly competing product based on the same idea. This happens all the time.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by leebase

Right now there are two fairy tale based tv shows: Grimm and Once Upon a Time. They debuted at the same time. Clearly one network got wind of the idea and put out a directly competing product based on the same idea. This happens all the time.

Or they both (belatedly) noticed the extended success of Bill Willingham's FABLES projects.

The two shows have really diverged from each other with one becoming more of a monster hunter show and the other diving into the family friendly realm of the Disney animated movies. Meanwhile, fans of FABLES get to visit that realm in the (excellent) videogame. Newcomers are welcome: it is a very accessible game.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by leebase

And it's not just the names but so much about the character himself....both former military police.

Oh really? Wow, they are both former military police? If everytime I come across a character that is an ex Navy SEAL should I be worried that they copy catted John Kelly (aka John Clark in later books) of Tom Clancy's Jack Ryan books? I think not. There is a surprising number of super hero retired Navy SEALS in books ...

[leebase]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

Oh really? Wow, they are both former military police? If everytime I come across a character that is an ex Navy SEAL should I be worried that they copy catted John Kelly (aka John Clark in later books) of Tom Clancy's Jack Ryan books? I think not. There is a surprising number of super hero retired Navy SEALS in books ...

I didn't attempt an exhaustive comparison...but there is a lot more than just "genre" similarities.

If I were to write a book with a character named Jayce Delivered (instead of Jason Bourne) who was a special ops guy who had amnesia and the plat revolves around a secret government program that created Jayce.....it wouldn't simply be "spy genre". It'd be a much too close of a copying of The Bourne Identity.

It would be one thing for an unknown to do that...but for an established writer to do the same really is odd.

That said...if you like Jack Reacher books, you'll enjoy the John Puller books as well. No one gets to own an idea in literature. Just think of how many different ways Shakespeare's stories get told and retold.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by leebase

It would be one thing for an unknown to do that...but for an established writer to do the same really is odd.

That said...if you like Jack Reacher books, you'll enjoy the John Puller books as well. No one gets to own an idea in literature. Just think of how many different ways Shakespeare's stories get told and retold.

Those two contradict themselves. How is it allowed for newbies, but not established writers? Makes little sense when both books end up being good as in above. A newbie using it will be just told that the book was good because he "stole"? Takes a lot more than just stealing an idea to make a good book. Even if you are already a good established writer. Granted, an established one can get away with crap maybe once or twice and not suffer much, but after that readers will question what happened. Not?

Doesn't James Patterson do the same thing? Only he has the audacity to claim it at his work? Same difference, IMO.

[leebase]

I agree that the lines are blurred. When is imitation a form of flatter and when is someone basically stealing the creative ideas of someone else?

I didn't say it would be OK for an unknown to do something like this, only that it would be more common. Clearly Baldacci has the chops to create his own characters and make his own books. Why would someone like him do such an OBVIOUS copying of another author's successful franchise? It sure pissed Lee Child off, and I understand why.

I'm not claiming it's "WRONG" or unlawful or anything like that. It is what it is. Baldacci cribbed a great deal from Lee Child and put out a directly competing franchise. But, as it happens, Baldacci is a good writer and so the books are pretty good in their own right.