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Old 11-22-2014, 05:19 PM   #676
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Nothing's wrong with it (beside the fact that my preferred reading app's support for ePub3 yields a less than satisfactory reading experience compared to its epub2 experience).


Without buying it and looking at the OPF file, I don't think you CAN tell--with Google, anyway. It just gave me a link to download the "EPUB."
With Mantano you can turn it off or on. But Mantano doesn't seem to be able to override the simplest things at all anymore - like margins, fonts, or justification. I never understood how they could charge so much when it was $7.99, and now it can't do much of anything.
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Old 11-22-2014, 05:33 PM   #677
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With Mantano you can turn it off or on. But Mantano doesn't seem to be able to override the simplest things at all anymore - like margins, fonts, or justification. I never understood how they could charge so much when it was $7.99, and now it can't do much of anything.
I use Mantano. I like it. But then I'm not one to override a book's settings with an app. I either read it (if its formatting doesn't offend me), or I pop the hood on the epub and make it conform to my formatting wishes. But I find reading books with its new epub3 (Readium) engine to be unsatisfactory (not to mention completely different than the epub2 reading experience in every way). And I find forcing Mantano to read epub3s using the epub2 engine to be flaky, unstable and downright crashy.

Oh well.
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Old 11-22-2014, 05:43 PM   #678
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Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post
I use Mantano. I like it. But then I'm not one to override a book's settings with an app. I either read it (if its formatting doesn't offend me), or I pop the hood on the epub and make it conform to my formatting wishes. But I find reading books with its new epub3 (Readium) engine to be unsatisfactory (not to mention completely different than the epub2 reading experience in every way). And I find forcing Mantano to read epub3s using the epub2 engine to be flaky, unstable and downright crashy.

Oh well.
You wouldn't want to override margins this huge?
Click image for larger version Name: uploadfromtaptalk1416696217189.jpg Views: 379 Size: 117.1 KB ID: 131451
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Old 11-22-2014, 06:14 PM   #679
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Originally Posted by Purple Lady View Post
You wouldn't want to override margins this huge?
Attachment 131451
Nope. That's an example of a book I'd open up and just fix.
The problem I have with overriding margins, justification and the like with a reading app's settings (a la Moon) is that those overrides are applied like a sledgehammer where I was looking for a scalpel. It's all or nothing. Things that needed to be right aligned might not be any more; originally indented blocks of text may become indistinguishable from the rest of the text because left/right margins were overridden wholesale; scene-breaks created with CSS margin-top may disappear because paragraph spacing was homogenized with an override. Overrides make messes of things like epigraphs, songs/poems, scene-breaks and other specially formatted sections/letters/citations because they're just not granular enough.

So unless they're absolutely horrible ... I just read them. And if they ARE horrible ... I fix them.
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Old 11-22-2014, 06:46 PM   #680
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Nope. That's an example of a book I'd open up and just fix.
The problem I have with overriding margins, justification and the like with a reading app's settings (a la Moon) is that those overrides are applied like a sledgehammer where I was looking for a scalpel. It's all or nothing. Things that needed to be right aligned might not be any more; originally indented blocks of text may become indistinguishable from the rest of the text because left/right margins were overridden wholesale; scene-breaks created with CSS margin-top may disappear because paragraph spacing was homogenized with an override. Overrides make messes of things like epigraphs, songs/poems, scene-breaks and other specially formatted sections/letters/citations because they're just not granular enough.

So unless they're absolutely horrible ... I just read them. And if they ARE horrible ... I fix them.
I like Moon+ because it always fixes things, but yes, sometimes too much. I had hoped Mantano would be able change at least my minimum but unfortunately it won't - sometimes it won't even change the font anymore. I wasted way too much time with my Sony fixing things and I'd rather spend it reading.
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Old 11-24-2014, 09:56 AM   #681
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Just bought an epub today:

... didn't go with B&N because I can't download/sideload without installing special scripts for their website to download the book without a Nook/app.

... didn't buy from Kobo because the book appears to only be available in their kepub format. I can get around that, but I'll avoid that hoop if I can.

... finally went with Google Books because I could download the adobe ascm file and download the epub using ADE. Yay!! Except that after all that ... turns out it's an ePub3.

I give up.
Some publishers are making ePub 3 these days such as Tor. There's nothing special about them and they do work with ADE just fine. There is no real reason to make these ePub 3 as they don't use any ePub 3 only features. It's very easy to convert them back to ePub 2.
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Old 11-24-2014, 11:53 AM   #682
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Some publishers are making ePub 3 these days such as Tor. There's nothing special about them and they do work with ADE just fine. There is no real reason to make these ePub 3 as they don't use any ePub 3 only features. It's very easy to convert them back to ePub 2.
How do you convert ePub3 > ePub2?

Thanks!
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Old 11-24-2014, 01:19 PM   #683
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How do you convert ePub3 > ePub2?

Thanks!
Do a full analysis of the book, make sure it isn't using any EPUB3 features, then manually edit the OPF.

JSWolf is making it sound easier than it is, you have to actually know how ebooks are constructed. He (and I and DiapDealer) have that knowledge, but most users don't.
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Old 11-24-2014, 02:32 PM   #684
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Do a full analysis of the book, make sure it isn't using any EPUB3 features, then manually edit the OPF.

JSWolf is making it sound easier than it is, you have to actually know how ebooks are constructed. He (and I and DiapDealer) have that knowledge, but most users don't.
The only real feature of ePub 3 that they are using is the NAV ToC. I've seen some of these ePub 3 and they could just as easily have been made as ePub 2.

Here is the OPF from one of those ePub 3 converted to ePub 2.

Code:
<?xml version='1.0' encoding='utf-8'?>
<package xmlns="http://www.idpf.org/2007/opf" unique-identifier="BookId" version="2.0">
  <metadata xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:opf="http://www.idpf.org/2007/opf">
    <dc:identifier id="BookId" opf:scheme="UUID">urn:uuid:d639d480-af40-45e3-a267-69fac5b090ef</dc:identifier>
    <dc:title>Lock 0.5 - Unlocked</dc:title>
    <dc:creator>John Scalzi</dc:creator>
    <dc:language>en</dc:language>
    <dc:publisher>Tom Doherty Associates</dc:publisher>
    <dc:rights>Copyright © 2014 John Scalzi</dc:rights>
    <dc:date>2014-04-12</dc:date>
    <meta name="cover" content="my_cover_image"/>
    <dc:description>&lt;p&gt;A new near-future science fiction novella by John Scalzi, one of the most popular authors in modern SF. &lt;I&gt;Unlocked&lt;/I&gt; traces the medical history behind a virus that will sweep the globe and affect the majority of the world's population, setting the stage for &lt;I&gt;Lock In&lt;/I&gt;, the next major novel by John Scalzi.&lt;br&gt;&lt;P&gt;At the publisher's request, this title is being sold without Digital Rights Management software (DRM) applied.&lt;/P&gt;</dc:description>
    <meta xmlns="http://www.idpf.org/2007/opf" content="0.7.4" name="Sigil version"/>
    <dc:date opf:event="modification">2014-08-26</dc:date>
  </metadata>
	<manifest>
		<item href="9781466871793_epub_ncx_r1.ncx" id="ncx" media-type="application/x-dtbncx+xml"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/cvi.xhtml" id="cvi" media-type="application/xhtml+xml"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/tp.xhtml" id="tp" media-type="application/xhtml+xml"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/ded.xhtml" id="ded" media-type="application/xhtml+xml"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/int.xhtml" id="int" media-type="application/xhtml+xml"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/p01.xhtml" id="p01" media-type="application/xhtml+xml"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/p02.xhtml" id="p02" media-type="application/xhtml+xml"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/p03.xhtml" id="p03" media-type="application/xhtml+xml"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/p04.xhtml" id="p04" media-type="application/xhtml+xml"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/p05.xhtml" id="p05" media-type="application/xhtml+xml"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/p06.xhtml" id="p06" media-type="application/xhtml+xml"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/oth.xhtml" id="oth" media-type="application/xhtml+xml"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/cop.xhtml" id="cop" media-type="application/xhtml+xml"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/style.css" id="css" media-type="text/css"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/images/96-1.jpg" id="img96-1.jpg" media-type="image/jpeg"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/images/title_page.jpg" id="imgfpage" media-type="image/jpeg"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/images/cover.jpg" id="my_cover_image" media-type="image/jpeg"/>
<item href="OEBPS/fonts/CharisSILB.ttf" id="font1" media-type="application/x-font-ttf"/>
<item href="OEBPS/fonts/CharisSILI.ttf" id="font3" media-type="application/x-font-ttf"/>
<item href="OEBPS/fonts/CharisSILR.ttf" id="font4" media-type="application/x-font-ttf"/>
	</manifest>
	<spine toc="ncx">
		<itemref idref="cvi" linear="yes"/>
		<itemref idref="tp"/>
		<itemref idref="ded"/>
		<itemref idref="int"/>
		<itemref idref="p01"/>
		<itemref idref="p02"/>
		<itemref idref="p03"/>
		<itemref idref="p04"/>
		<itemref idref="p05"/>
		<itemref idref="p06"/>
		<itemref idref="oth"/>
		<itemref idref="cop"/>
	</spine>
</package>
Here is the original OPF as it exists as ePub 3.

Code:
<package xmlns="http://www.idpf.org/2007/opf" prefix="ibooks: http://vocabulary.itunes.apple.com/rdf/ibooks/vocabulary-extensions-1.0/" unique-identifier="pub-id" version="3.0">
	<metadata xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:opf="http://www.idpf.org/2007/opf">
		<dc:title id="t1" xml:lang="en">Unlocked</dc:title>
		<meta property="title-type" refines="#t1">main</meta>
		<meta property="display-seq" refines="#t1">1</meta>
		<dc:identifier id="pub-id">9781466871793</dc:identifier>
		<meta id="isbn" property="dcterms:identifer">urn:isbn:9781466871793</meta>
		<dc:creator id="auth1">John Scalzi</dc:creator>
		<meta property="role" refines="#auth1" scheme="marc:relators">aut</meta>
		<meta property="display-seq" refines="#auth1">1</meta>
		<meta property="file-as" refines="#auth1">Scalzi, John</meta>
		<dc:language>en</dc:language>
		<meta property="dcterms:language">en</meta>
		<dc:publisher>Tom Doherty Associates</dc:publisher>
		<meta property="dcterms:publisher">Tor</meta>
		<dc:rights>Copyright © 2014 John Scalzi</dc:rights>
		<dc:date>2014-04-12</dc:date>
		<meta property="dcterms:modified">2014-04-12T16:00:00Z</meta>
		<meta property="ibooks:version">2.0.0</meta> 
		<meta content="my_cover_image" name="cover"/>
	<description xmlns="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/">&lt;p&gt;A new near-future science fiction novella by John Scalzi, one of the most popular authors in modern SF. &lt;I&gt;Unlocked&lt;/I&gt; traces the medical history behind a virus that will sweep the globe and affect the majority of the world's population, setting the stage for &lt;I&gt;Lock In&lt;/I&gt;, the next major novel by John Scalzi.&lt;br&gt;&lt;P&gt;At the publisher's request, this title is being sold without Digital Rights Management software (DRM) applied.&lt;/P&gt;</description>
</metadata>
	<manifest>
		<item href="nav.xhtml" id="nav" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" properties="nav"/>
		<item href="9781466871793_epub_ncx_r1.ncx" id="ncx" media-type="application/x-dtbncx+xml"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/cvi.xhtml" id="cvi" media-type="application/xhtml+xml"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/tp.xhtml" id="tp" media-type="application/xhtml+xml"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/ded.xhtml" id="ded" media-type="application/xhtml+xml"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/cop_not.xhtml" id="cop_not" media-type="application/xhtml+xml"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/toc.xhtml" id="toc" media-type="application/xhtml+xml"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/int.xhtml" id="int" media-type="application/xhtml+xml"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/p01.xhtml" id="p01" media-type="application/xhtml+xml"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/p02.xhtml" id="p02" media-type="application/xhtml+xml"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/p03.xhtml" id="p03" media-type="application/xhtml+xml"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/p04.xhtml" id="p04" media-type="application/xhtml+xml"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/p05.xhtml" id="p05" media-type="application/xhtml+xml"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/p06.xhtml" id="p06" media-type="application/xhtml+xml"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/teas.xhtml" id="teas" media-type="application/xhtml+xml"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/exc.xhtml" id="exc" media-type="application/xhtml+xml"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/oth.xhtml" id="oth" media-type="application/xhtml+xml"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/tor-ad.xhtml" id="tor-ad" media-type="application/xhtml+xml"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/cop.xhtml" id="cop" media-type="application/xhtml+xml"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/style.css" id="css" media-type="text/css"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/images/96-1.jpg" id="img96-1.jpg" media-type="image/jpeg"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/images/com.jpg" id="imgcom.jpg" media-type="image/jpeg"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/images/title_page.jpg" id="imgfpage" media-type="image/jpeg"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/images/Tordotcom_ad.jpg" id="imgfad" media-type="image/jpeg"/>
		<item href="OEBPS/images/cover.jpg" id="my_cover_image" media-type="image/jpeg"/>
<item href="OEBPS/fonts/CharisSILB.ttf" id="font1" media-type="application/x-font-ttf"/>
<item href="OEBPS/fonts/CharisSILBI.ttf" id="font2" media-type="application/x-font-ttf"/>
<item href="OEBPS/fonts/CharisSILI.ttf" id="font3" media-type="application/x-font-ttf"/>
<item href="OEBPS/fonts/CharisSILR.ttf" id="font4" media-type="application/x-font-ttf"/>
	</manifest>
	<spine toc="ncx">
		<itemref idref="cvi" linear="yes"/>
		<itemref idref="tp"/>
		<itemref idref="ded"/>
		<itemref idref="cop_not"/>
		<itemref idref="toc"/>
		<itemref idref="int"/>
		<itemref idref="p01"/>
		<itemref idref="p02"/>
		<itemref idref="p03"/>
		<itemref idref="p04"/>
		<itemref idref="p05"/>
		<itemref idref="p06"/>
		<itemref idref="teas"/>
		<itemref idref="exc"/>
		<itemref idref="oth"/>
		<itemref idref="tor-ad"/>
		<itemref idref="cop"/>
	</spine>
</package>
Last edited by JSWolf; 11-24-2014 at 02:37 PM.
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Old 11-24-2014, 02:35 PM   #685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschwartz View Post
Do a full analysis of the book, make sure it isn't using any EPUB3 features, then manually edit the OPF.

JSWolf is making it sound easier than it is, you have to actually know how ebooks are constructed. He (and I and DiapDealer) have that knowledge, but most users don't.
I talk a good talk, but I'm really as dumb as they come.
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Old 11-24-2014, 03:35 PM   #686
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Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
The only real feature of ePub 3 that they are using is the NAV ToC. I've seen some of these ePub 3 and they could just as easily have been made as ePub 2.
I will grant that that is usually a safe assumption. Not a guarantee, though. And it is worth noting that a certain amount of technical knowledge is required to convert them -- unless someone has come out with an automated EPUB-3-to-2 converter without me realizing?
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Old 11-24-2014, 04:12 PM   #687
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I will grant that that is usually a safe assumption. Not a guarantee, though. And it is worth noting that a certain amount of technical knowledge is required to convert them -- unless someone has come out with an automated EPUB-3-to-2 converter without me realizing?
CALIBRE
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Old 11-24-2014, 04:26 PM   #688
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I guess there is that. If you don't mind mangling the book internals, which non-technical types don't... so calibre simply ignores the packaging and treats it as EPUB2?
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Old 11-24-2014, 05:07 PM   #689
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Let me see if I'm understanding this correctly:

If you manually change the opf per JSWolf's example above, the book converts from 3.0 to 2.0 -- and I assume if the book contained 3.0 features you lose them and the book could go wonky. However, if the book didn't have any 3.0 features to start with, you're good to go?

Alternatively, a Calibre EPUB>EPUB conversion will transform 3.0 to 2.0?

(I like learning this stuff and I'm finding this discussion really interesting. Thanks!)
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Old 11-24-2014, 05:15 PM   #690
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Originally Posted by Jane12 View Post
Let me see if I'm understanding this correctly:

If you manually change the opf per JSWolf's example above, the book converts from 3.0 to 2.0 -- and I assume if the book contained 3.0 features you lose them and the book could go wonky. However, if the book didn't have any 3.0 features to start with, you're good to go?

Alternatively, a Calibre EPUB>EPUB conversion will transform 3.0 to 2.0?

(I like learning this stuff and I'm finding this discussion really interesting. Thanks!)
I've not seen any retail ePub 3 (outside of Apple) that cannot be converted to ePub 2 without any loss of functionality.

Take the two OPF I posted and do a diff compare of both and you'll see what needs to be done to convert the ePub 3 to an ePub 2. I did also delete the NAV ToC and the internal ToC as they are both not needed (redundant) since we already have the NCX ToC.

Yes, Calibre will take the ePub 3 and convert it to an ePub 2.
Last edited by JSWolf; 11-24-2014 at 05:17 PM.
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