Problems for Apple

[Shane R]

Originally Posted by crane3

As an aside, read that the new mac mini has the ram soldered so one has to purchase the mini with the ram configuration installed, at apple's pricing; but if one can afford an extra $400+ then go for it.

If you can wait, wait until they start selling refurbs in their online store. Good as new, but with a nice chunk of change off that your spend on accessories.

Or booze. Your choice.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by Shane R

If you can wait, wait until they start selling refurbs in their online store. Good as new, but with a nice chunk of change off that your spend on accessories.

Or booze. Your choice.

Or buy a PC which IS new, same specs lower price which "supports" user upgrades.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Or buy a PC which IS new, same specs lower price which "supports" user upgrades.

Actually, if you compare apples to apples (so to speak) rather than apples to oranges, it would cost about the same to build a PC with the same spec as a mac. PC's tend to be less costly because most of them use whatever is cheapest at a given time for the various components. For example, slightly slower memory is less expensive, yet some will look at 8G verse 8G without looking at the actual speed of the chips being used. For many people, it doesn't make much of a difference for what they do, but that sort of thing does account for most of the price difference.

[Shane R]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Actually, if you compare apples to apples (so to speak) rather than apples to oranges, it would cost about the same to build a PC with the same spec as a mac.

It's always boiled down to this: a lot of people (their Mac sales are still rising) want Macs, and for various reasons, and the price is of secondary concern to with regard to those reasons. The value or pricing of other equally outfitted but less expensive systems simply isn't attractive to them -- because those systems aren't Macs.

I don't think it's crazy to be a fan of and want a product just because of who made it. I've had family that wouldn't dream of buying a non-American car, and others who always bought from one particular American car manufacturer.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by Shane R

It's always boiled down to this: a lot of people (their Mac sales are still rising) want Macs, and for various reasons, and the price is of secondary concern to with regard to those reasons. The value or pricing of other equally outfitted but less expensive systems simply isn't attractive to them -- because those systems aren't Macs.

I don't think it's crazy to be a fan of and want a product just because of who made it. I've had family that wouldn't dream of buying a non-American car, and others who always bought from one particular American car manufacturer.

Sure. The comparison between computers and cars is a good one. Some people are willing to pay more for perceived value, others just want something that will do what they want for the best price. IMPO, neither approach is superior, it's just a different way of approaching things.

[Cosimo]

Originally Posted by Shane R

It's always boiled down to this: a lot of people (their Mac sales are still rising) want Macs, and for various reasons, and the price is of secondary concern to with regard to those reasons. The value or pricing of other equally outfitted but less expensive systems simply isn't attractive to them -- because those systems aren't Macs.

I don't think it's crazy to be a fan of and want a product just because of who made it. I've had family that wouldn't dream of buying a non-American car, and others who always bought from one particular American car manufacturer.

This.

I've always been a Mac person. I will always be a Mac person. If I couldn't afford something new I would buy refurbished or used.

[Penforhire]

I haven't always been a Mac person but I do like my 13" MBA, my first Mac, bought last year. At the time, as pwalker mentions, it would have cost as much or more to buy an equivalent Windows ultrabook (think Sony Vaio Z). The hardware really is quite good. The trackpad is unmatched, the keyboard is as good as it gets in that form factor (and backlit), the chassis is amazingly solid, etcetera.

I remember when there was a "Apple tax" on all their products, like +$200 for the same printer, but it is only true for a few products today and many of those (iPad) can still be debated due to other benefits.

[Prestidigitweeze]

I've never quite understood what it meant to be a "Mac person" as opposed to someone who used Macs. Standardized equipment tends to be de rigeur in recording studios in New York and L.A., and a lot of producers use AMS Neves, yet I've never heard audio engineers refer to themselves as "Neve persons." Those same engineers tend also to use Macs; again, they don't call themselves "Mac people."

I like PCs and usually own at least one at any given moment. At the same time, I own and use Macs for things related to music and film production. Using Macs has never been a lifestyle decision except in the sense that, in order to be a working artist, I had to learn to use them. The decision was to get work as an artist, not swear allegiance to a product line.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze

I've never quite understood what it meant to be a "Mac person" as opposed to someone who used Macs. Standardized equipment tends to be de rigeur in recording studios in New York and L.A., and a lot of producers use AMS Neves, yet I've never heard audio engineers refer to themselves as "Neve persons." Those same engineers tend also to use Macs; again, they don't call themselves "Mac people."

I like PCs and usually own at least one at any given moment. At the same time, I own and use Macs for things related to music and film production. Using Macs has never been a lifestyle decision except in the sense that, in order to be a working artist, I had to learn to use them. The decision was to be a working artist, not to swear allegiance to a product line.

I would say that it's a lot like someone is a BMW or Toyota Camry person, i.e. they find a manufacturer or model that they like and works well for them, so they just stick with it. I see it with all sorts of products - cars, TV's, audio receivers, ebook readers, the list goes on and on.

[Dr. Drib]

Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze

I've never quite understood what it meant to be a "Mac person" as opposed to someone who used Macs. Standardized equipment tends to be de rigeur in recording studios in New York and L.A., and a lot of producers use AMS Neves, yet I've never heard audio engineers refer to themselves as "Neve persons." Those same engineers tend also to use Macs; again, they don't call themselves "Mac people."

I like PCs and usually own at least one at any given moment. At the same time, I own and use Macs for things related to music and film production. Using Macs has never been a lifestyle decision except in the sense that, in order to be a working artist, I had to learn to use them. The decision was to be a working artist, not to swear allegiance to a product line.

It's also has to do with adopting a certain kind of mind-set, or feeling an affinity or connection with a product and with its philosophy.

I was Mac person the day I bought my "Fat Mac" in 1984. It forever changed the way I think about computers and interacted with them. Before that, I had a KayPro 2, running MS-Dos.

[Penforhire]

I agree. There is a philosophy at work in their products that you may agree or disagree with. The older I get the less I tinker with my hardware so I mostly enjoy Apple's philosophy.

[murg]

Originally Posted by Dr. Drib

Before that, I had a KayPro 2, running MS-Dos.

I had one of these. I loved it.

[Prestidigitweeze]

Originally Posted by Dr. Drib

It also has to do with adopting a certain kind of mind-set, or feeling an affinity or connection with a product and with its philosophy.

It's actually the mindset that baffles me -- not because I'm unable to understand someone's connection to a specific aesthetic or design philosophy, but because features and platforms are potentially fluid. Not to get political, but on election day, I'm more interested in a candidate's voting record than I am their supposed "character," which is usually the hybrid of their public persona, the press's simplification and a pejorative construct by the opposition. In that sense, gadgets are better versions of candidates for our attention; they're are able to mutate to conform to the qualities we desire.

The hardest pill for me is the idea that liking or disliking a given computer platform is an ultimate expression of the user's personality. I would argue that what you do with your computer is the expressive part, not which computer you choose. I would also argue that making a point of refusing to use a certain kind of computer (such as a Mac or PC) is another consumer product choice and not an a priori rejection of marketing hype. The most independent thing a person can do is choose whichever platform(s) work for them practically and to upgrade only when necessary.

I'm not condemning or praising Macs. I'm only trying to view products in terms of their usefulness. I try (vainly, perhaps) not to be hypnotized into pulling out my credit card to slake agonies of gearlust. (If only that worked as well for me with headphones and e-readers as it does with laptops!)

[ApK]

Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze

I've never quite understood what it meant to be a "Mac person" as opposed to someone who used Macs. Standardized equipment tends to be de rigeur in recording studios in New York and L.A., and a lot of producers use AMS Neves, yet I've never heard audio engineers refer to themselves as "Neve persons." Those same engineers tend also to use Macs; again, they don't call themselves "Mac people."

I like PCs and usually own at least one at any given moment. At the same time, I own and use Macs for things related to music and film production. Using Macs has never been a lifestyle decision except in the sense that, in order to be a working artist, I had to learn to use them. The decision was to get work as an artist, not swear allegiance to a product line.

Being a mac person or being a pc person?

It's not that hard. All else aside, if you use a Mac for some stuff and and you use a PC for some stuff, does one of them make you say "I like this, and I'll go get one of these for my personal use, and it will be the machine I prefer when I could choose either."
If so, then your are "that" person.

You are a "PC person" based on your statement that you like and own PCs, and apparently use mac just because it's the standard for certain particular work tasks.

It's not necessarily about brand loyalty or lifestyle choices beyond the direct one.

There are some people who have no preference or feelings of "like" for either. They are not "computer people."

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by ApK

Being a mac person or being a pc person?

It's not that hard. All else aside, if you use a Mac for some stuff and and you use a PC for some stuff, does one of them make you say "I like this, and I'll go get one of these for my personal use, and it will be the machine I prefer when I could choose either."
If so, then your are "that" person.

You are a "PC person" based on your statement that you like and own PCs, and apparently use mac just because it's the standard for certain particular work tasks.

It's not necessarily about brand loyalty or lifestyle choices beyond the direct one.

There are some people who have no preference or feelings of "like" for either. They are not "computer people."

Yep. If you are a musician, it's a bit like what sort of guitar you play. It's not so much that one is better than the other, it's more a combination of what type of music you play and what sounds better to you personally. I favor Taylors myself.