Kindle Voyage vs Kobo Aura H2O

[cct1]

He actually brings up some good points, it's just the way he's presented them that's an issue.

The great irony is that the very same people who criticize Karter for criticizing Ereaders in general just had major criticisms of the Voyage in particular and had many issues with the H20 as well. They aren't perfect, and many of us would love to see further refinement. They fall into the category of good, not great.

Eventually there will be a color Ereader, and it will be revolutionary. The technology has just taken a frustatingly long time. The Voyage lighting needs further improvement. I love the idea of a 6.8" ereader, but I'd like it even better with buttons, either physical or haptic. Kobo's software is improving, but there are still issues. Karter brings up a great point--a 6.8 ereader that is waterproof, but is no longer easily portable, is less than ideal. And most people aren't buying the H20 because it's waterproof. Makes more sense to make a 6" waterproof ereader is the beach is the target. Maybe they'll come out with a 6" to match the 6.8.

That being said, Ereaders in general are still good, with room for improvement to become great. For some, they're already "great", and that's fine, but for many of us, we'd like to see more refinement, rather than settle for uneven screens, buggy software, etc. I still love mine, but it won't be the last one I buy, if/when these further improvements occur. There will be a time when the hit the I don't really need to upgrade anymore sentiment, like with my laptop, but that time isn't here yet.

Karter, there is an "in" crowd here, it's a tight group, and outsiders are generally not welcomed heartily on these boards unless they're in complete agreement with said crowd. Just my perception.

[Chi Cygni]

In the very same open outside pocket I carried my PW1 before - it is THE pocket for me to carry ereaders be it 6" or now 6.8" with cover so for me kobo being bigger is not an issue and as easily portable. But this time I was not afraid of rain getting into said pocket. On the contrary I would prefer not to carry them inside my handbag for all those knick knacks flying by. Had I bought voyage it would end up in the same pocket anyway. I couldn't understand that post.

[aceflor]

1.

Originally Posted by cct1

it's just the way he's presented them that's an issue.

No...... you think ....????

2.

Originally Posted by cct1

The great irony is that the very same people who criticize Karter for criticizing Ereaders in general just had major criticisms of the Voyage in particular and had many issues with the H20 as well.

That's not the great irony. The great irony is you not understanding that it is all about....1.

Originally Posted by cct1

Eventually there will be a color Ereader, and it will be revolutionary.

I doubt it very much. E-reader will be replaced by tablets in the end, as soon as those will manage a longer battery life.

Originally Posted by cct1

Karter, there is an "in" crowd here, it's a tight group, and outsiders are generally not welcomed heartily on these boards unless they're in complete agreement with said crowd. Just my perception.

The great irony (let's say, the second great irony) is that those who bothered to answer are actually the most helpful among us. Do your homework, research all their posts and you will see that. I am not speaking about myself, I am a cold and selfless bitch, and enjoying every minute of it.
We are actually a very welcoming crowd, and a helpful one too. We just like, what are they called now............ yep, got it : manners. Bro

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by aceflor

I doubt it very much. E-reader will be replaced by tablets in the end, as soon as those will manage a longer battery life.

Yes, colour display technologies such as Liquavista offer the potential of daylight readability, low power consumption, and video refresh rates. If you have that combination, the need for separate reading devices essentially disappears.

[Josieb1]

Like aceflor I think the Voyage and the H20 pretty much represent the best we will see in e-ink readers. The prices are going up, £140 for the H20 £169 for the Voyage, and tablet prices are coming down. I can't see this being sustained going forward.

[booklover6]

Originally Posted by aceflor

I am not speaking about myself, I am a cold and selfless bitch, and enjoying every minute of it.

You meant to say "selfish."

I love it when my kids call me mean. I reply, good! So glad you noticed! Or other such remarks.

[aceflor]

Originally Posted by booklover6

You meant to say "selfish."

I love it when my kids call me mean. I reply, good! So glad you noticed! Or other such remarks.

actually I wanted to write heartless....

Now how's that for a great lapsus ? Sorry for that though, this is where you see that I am not an english native speaker .

[cct1]

It's just a matter of time before a decent color e-ink screen becomes available, with reasonable battery life. How much time is anyone's guess. And I would personally be all over that, if the technology for a front lit screen was even. And that will be key, because if you have a problem with uneven lighting in black and white (I do), color will make it appear much worse.


As for the "irony" in this thread, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one, as it seems to have struck a nerve..

The technology will continue to improve to the point where the human eye is outclassed. It's not there yet, but it will be.

[booklover6]

Originally Posted by Josieb1

Like aceflor I think the Voyage and the H20 pretty much represent the best we will see in e-ink readers. The prices are going up, £140 for the H20 £169 for the Voyage, and tablet prices are coming down. I can't see this being sustained going forward.

That does seem to be the trend. When the choice is between a 6" $200 eink reader (Voyage) or a 6" $100 tablet (Fire), I'm going to choose the tablet. I'm poor! (And I absolutely love the screen on the 6" Fire for reading!)

[93terp]

Originally Posted by mr_nihilism

Does anyone have a H2O that doesn't have a yellowish light? Mine is very white.

I do not have yellowish light. Like yours, mine Is also very white, which I love!

[leaston]

Originally Posted by Josieb1

Like aceflor I think the Voyage and the H20 pretty much represent the best we will see in e-ink readers. The prices are going up, £140 for the H20 £169 for the Voyage, and tablet prices are coming down. I can't see this being sustained going forward.

Yes, this price change struck me the other day when I was looking at the H2O as a potential purchase. It's getting too expensive an option considering the price of tablets.

I wish they'd hurry up and release 'something' I can use in daylight to read pdfs that has the awesome battery life of the average ereader! Are you listening, manufacturers??!?

[javadoo]

Originally Posted by cct1

Karter, there is an "in" crowd here, it's a tight group, and outsiders are generally not welcomed heartily on these boards unless they're in complete agreement with said crowd. Just my perception.

True, that.

[aceflor]

Originally Posted by javadoo

True, that.

javadoo, I read the other thread. I think Duckie made a very valuable point in one of HIS (I, again, stand corrected. Duckie is a guy. Incredible but true. His posts were so good I thought he was a girl ) last posts in that thread. It is not the opinions, different or not, that bothers some of us, it is the way it is said, as if anyone not seeing defaults, or seeing defaults, or say prefering chocolate to vanilla is a complete moron.

And more and more of us, that have been shutting up in the past, do not accept this anymore and say so. So you may see it as an attempt to shut you up and make it a whole First Amendment affair, but try just for a second to switch place with one of us and see it from our perspective. I may be Don Quichote riding an old donkey and fighting against windmills, but in my view you can say whatever you want, there is just no need to offend anyone doing so.

I won't even comment Karter's post, because if you understand what I am trying to say, you will understand why he receveived this kind of reaction. Some of us may share his opinion regarding e-readers, some may not, and what could have indeed been a very interesting discussion turned into a flat refusal to participate in this discussion from not only me but others due to the very antagonistic tone of his posts.

I hope you will keep coming to MR and contributing because for the most part, I have enjoyed reading your posts and understand your point. I also understand those who have felt offended by some of your ways of putting it.

The Content is as always the key, but in virtual communication, the Form tends to be more and more forgotten, and it should not be. Wars have started for much less....

Peacefully yours.

[Loknor]

Originally Posted by cct1

It's just a matter of time before a decent color e-ink screen becomes available, with reasonable battery life. How much time is anyone's guess.

And you base this on what exactly?

Let's look at the sad reality: Book reading is declining and thus E-Reading is on the decline. On the other hand tablet technology is cheap and full color. There's a reason the market for e-readers is shrinking and competitors are falling left and right.

In other words, the market for a color e-ink screen simply isn't there. It would never be able to compete on price and utility with cheap led tablets.

That these Leds are terrible to read with is just not that important for sales.

And I would personally be all over that, if the technology for a front lit screen was even. And that will be key, because if you have a problem with uneven lighting in black and white (I do), color will make it appear much worse.

I certainy hope you realize that your opinion isn't the universally supported technology driver.

I doubt that perfect lightning would somehow increase the marketshare of Kobo. It seems that people choose between Amazon and Epub. Screen quality counts a bit, lightning counts a little bit... but it's minor (this is logical considering the lack of progress in the technology and the slight quality differences in reading experiences between brands).

A similar situation: in Televisions image quality is paramount to your expereince.. Yet the consumer prefers cheap leds. Pioneer, king of quality, ended it's best TV lines due to lack of demand. Image quality is not nearly as decisive in succes as you think.

The technology will continue to improve to the point where the human eye is outclassed. It's not there yet, but it will be.

See above. What you fail to state is the business case behind this. E-INK progress has been slow for a reason. The death of many manufacturers is another sign on the wall. Your wished for technology simple doesn't have a viable market.

Now onto the woes of Kobo:

The reason Karter was dismissed out of hand was the lack of knowledge combined with his tendency to see his own ideas as universal truths

1. Kobo does not develop it's own screens and simply does not have the money to do just that.
2. Thin bezels are not that practical on an ereader. Where would you put your fingers? The usage is quite different from a tablet.
3. The portability difference between 6.8 versus 6 inch is marginal (he difference is a few MM widt/length). Opinions there vary quite a bit (for example I can pocket my Aura in my coats with no issues). On the other hand some prefer a bigger screen to read. It's contention, not consensus. 6" inch is better pocketable, so why not 5"? 6.8 reads better, so why not 8"? This is all taste, not universally held gripes with a product.

What stands is the annoyance with Kobo's software, but even there he forgets that many people have absolutely no issue with it (most likely the majority!)

Add to that the derigotary remarks on people who like their devices and you can only conclude that Karters post was lacking merit and his abbrasive style was a surefire way to lead to dismissal.

[aceflor]

Originally Posted by Loknor

And you base this on what exactly?

Let's look at the sad reality: Book reading is declining and thus E-Reading is on the decline. On the other hand tablet technology is cheap and full color. There's a reason the market for e-readers is shrinking and competitors are falling left and right.

In other words, the market for a color e-ink screen simply isn't there. It would never be able to compete on price and utility with cheap led tablets.

That these Leds are terrible to read with is just not that important for sales.


I certainy hope you realize that your opinion isn't the universally supported technology driver.

I doubt that perfect lightning would somehow increase the marketshare of Kobo. It seems that people choose between Amazon and Epub. Screen quality counts a bit, lightning counts a little bit... but it's minor (this is logical considering the lack of progress in the technology and the slight quality differences in reading experiences between brands).

A similar situation: in Televisions image quality is paramount to your expereince.. Yet the consumer prefers cheap leds. Pioneer, king of quality, ended it's best TV lines due to lack of demand. Image quality is not nearly as decisive in succes as you think.



See above. What you fail to state is the business case behind this. E-INK progress has been slow for a reason. The death of many manufacturers is another sign on the wall. Your wished for technology simple doesn't have a viable market.

Now onto the woes of Kobo:

The reason Karter was dismissed out of hand was the lack of knowledge combined with his tendency to see his own ideas as universal truths

1. Kobo does not develop it's own screens and simply does not have the money to do just that.
2. Thin bezels are not that practical on an ereader. Where would you put your fingers? The usage is quite different from a tablet.
3. The portability difference between 6.8 versus 6 inch is marginal (he difference is a few MM widt/length). Opinions there vary quite a bit (for example I can pocket my Aura in my coats with no issues). On the other hand some prefer a bigger screen to read. It's contention, not consensus. 6" inch is better pocketable, so why not 5"? 6.8 reads better, so why not 8"? This is all taste, not universally held gripes with a product.

What stands is the annoyance with Kobo's software, but even there he forgets that many people have absolutely no issue with it (most likely the majority!)

Add to that the derigotary remarks on people who like their devices and you can only conclude that Karters post was lacking merit and his abbrasive style was a surefire way to lead to dismissal.

and so much better formulated !