The Vent and Rant Thread

[wodin]

I'm not sure about the Mainland, but here in Hawaii many restaurant have taken to adding an 18% 'gratuity' to the check before totaling it.

I usually don't return to those, and occasionally will complain (sometimes loudly) about it.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by wodin

I'm not sure about the Mainland, but here in Hawaii many restaurant have taken to adding an 18% 'gratuity' to the check before totaling it.

I usually don't return to those, and occasionally will complain (sometimes loudly) about it.

They do that here too. You're not the only one with that reaction...

[Stitchawl]

The chief problem is that in the US, waitstaff have been excluded from Minimum Wage protection, and now rely upon tips to earn a living. The US government even taxes tips that the waitstaff receive!

The restaurant owners in the US complain that if they were to have to pay waitstaff minimum wage salaries, they would have to triple the prices on the menu. Sounds valid in theory but it does NOT explain how the whole rest of the world manages to pay decent wages to their employees without charging exorbitant prices for their meals.

I have no qualms about giving a sizable gratuity if the service I'm shown merits it. The key word is 'merit.' If a waiter takes my order, brings my order, then brings my bill, that is NOT meritorious service. That is their job. I'm not grateful that they are doing their job. That's what they are there for. However, if they take extra time and effort to see that all my needs are met, and do so with friendly yet professional courtesy, making sure my water glass is filled, making sure that when I want to order something else they don't have their eyes buried in a text message on their phones, but recognize my intention without my having to throw something at them... to me, that's worth it to me to show my appreciation.

The young girl who serves me lunch every day is appreciative of the fact that I recognize that she goes the extra mile to see to my lunch-time needs. And she's appreciative of the few cents that I leave each day. She's not upset that I'm not leaving a few dollars each day. In Asia, people really do understand 'it's the thought that counts.' She continues to show me this extra service every day.

Imagine the service I'd get in a US restaurant the day after I left a 10 cent tip...


Stitchawl

[orlok]

Originally Posted by Stitchawl

Imagine the service I'd get in a US restaurant the day after I left a 10 cent tip...

I'm not sure what it would be, but I'd sure like to be there to watch .

Here in the UK the expectation is generally for the diner to leave a tip between 10% and 15%. Some places add it to the bill automatically, but not that often, and I have complained when that happens. I'm with you - I don't automatically leave a tip if the service just covers the basic requirements, but if it is friendly and attentive, then I will usually leave 15% to 20% (depending on how expensive the meal is!).

[Freeshadow]

The point Stitchawl makes about what a "tip" should be is also proven by a look at literal translations:

german: Trinkgeld = literally drink(able) money as in Trinkwasser = drinkable (i.e. fresh) water.

polish: napiwek = forbeer(+noun suffix)

money given implicitly saying "I want to spend you a drink."

[Stitchawl]

Originally Posted by Freeshadow

The point Stitchawl makes about what a "tip" should be is also proven by a look at literal translations:

german: Trinkgeld = literally drink(able) money as in Trinkwasser = drinkable (i.e. fresh) water.

polish: napiwek = forbeer(+noun suffix)

money given implicitly saying "I want to spend you a drink."

Exactly! And in no case does a beer or a cocktail cost $10-$15 dollars, even in New York City!

But in the US, it really is the customer who loses out in this situation. Some professional waitstaff at the larger resort hotels in Miami Beach, Palm Springs, etc., etc., earn $60,000-$100,000 a year, working only the few months of the 'high season.' That's all tip money, 'cuz they are only being paid about $3 an hour for salary.

As a child, my family used to vacation in the Catskills for a couple of weeks every summer. The same waiters used to come back year after year, working 3-4 winter months in Florida and 3-4 summer months in the Borscht Belt. My father would tip their waiter $100, and my waiter in the Children's Dinning Room another $50.


Stitchawl

[steven522]

I was listening to the radio the other day and they were reporting on a new restaurant chain that paid good hourly wages to their wait staff and were strictly "no tipping." This led to two things: any of the staff were willing to help any customer at any table at any time to make sure everyone was happy and not just their own "area" and the customers were happy (not just about not tipping, but about being well treated while dining out).

Which leads to another rant about tipping: if the management of a restaurant will continue to employ a very bad waiter because they believe that a poor employee will improve in order to receive better tips, where does that leave the waiter financially and where does that leave his poor customers who have the bad luck to sit at one of his stations?

[red_phoenix]

This restaurant in BC tried to go tipless and pay a "living wage" and failed.

http://www.nanaimodailynews.com/news...flat-1.1325801

[Bilbo1967]

Originally Posted by Stitchawl

Exactly! And in no case does a beer or a cocktail cost $10-$15 dollars, even in New York City!

You've not been out for a drink in London lately!!

But you're right, I think. When I was a barman, the phrase that a customer would use when wanting to give us a tip was, "And a drink for yourself" when handing over the money. It wasn't really expected that I'd have a drink, but that I'd put an amount of money (in those days, about 50p - £1) in the tip jar before handing back any change.

Personally, I tip if I feel I've had good service. On a sliding scale, depending on how good I felt the service was, probably the most I would tip would be 20% (for what I considered exceptional service) and I'm more than happy to leave no tip at all if I don't think the service I received warrants it.

A couple of years ago, a waitress at a restaurant in France returned part of the tip we left her because she thought it was excessive (we'd had excellent service and were going home the next day so were getting rid of the Euro change we still had anyway). I think that it was about 25%; she gave us half of it back.

[orlok]

Just coincidentally came across this...

[wodin]

Originally Posted by Stitchawl

The chief problem is that in the US, waitstaff have been excluded from Minimum Wage protection, and now rely upon tips to earn a living. The US government even taxes tips that the waitstaff receive!

The restaurant owners in the US complain that if they were to have to pay waitstaff minimum wage salaries, they would have to triple the prices on the menu. Sounds valid in theory but it does NOT explain how the whole rest of the world manages to pay decent wages to their employees without charging exorbitant prices for their meals.

.... Snip

Restaurant in the US typically operate at a 300% margin, I can't imagine how paying a waiter another $5.00 US per hour could possibly triple the menu prices.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by wodin

Restaurant in the US typically operate at a 300% margin, I can't imagine how paying a waiter another $5.00 US per hour could possibly triple the menu prices.

Surely paying wait staff by wages rather than tips would only mean raising menu prices by 20%?

It's extremely difficult to change a culture, but you could discourage tips by stopping them being part of the basic wage.

[ProfCrash]

Originally Posted by wodin

I'm not sure about the Mainland, but here in Hawaii many restaurant have taken to adding an 18% 'gratuity' to the check before totaling it.

I usually don't return to those, and occasionally will complain (sometimes loudly) about it.

You can insist that that be removed.

[wodin]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

You can insist that that be removed.

Yes, that's what happens when "I occasionally will complain (sometimes loudly) about it."

It usually happens when I consider the service to be sub-par for some reason.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Stitchawl

Exactly! And in no case does a beer or a cocktail cost $10-$15 dollars, even in New York City!

But in the US, it really is the customer who loses out in this situation. Some professional waitstaff at the larger resort hotels in Miami Beach, Palm Springs, etc., etc., earn $60,000-$100,000 a year, working only the few months of the 'high season.' That's all tip money, 'cuz they are only being paid about $3 an hour for salary.

As a child, my family used to vacation in the Catskills for a couple of weeks every summer. The same waiters used to come back year after year, working 3-4 winter months in Florida and 3-4 summer months in the Borscht Belt. My father would tip their waiter $100, and my waiter in the Children's Dinning Room another $50.


Stitchawl

A long, long time ago, 'ere the advent of my military time, etc., I worked as waitstaff, putting myself through school, etc. Now, this was, let us say, long before the 80's. Ok, really, early 70's. Now, just hauling food, at lunch, at a busy restaurant, I was pulling down $30-$50 day, in tips. No booze.

When I moved to a country club, the tips DOUBLED. Again, lunch crowd--this time, booze, natch. When I then went to FL, and worked at the then-Beach Club Hotel in Naples, FL, I was easily making $150/night, on a regular night (more on weekends), hauling nothing but cocktails. Now, again: making $750-$1000 week doesn't sound like the same kind of dough that a Googler makes, but I was barely out of high school, going to school, and it was the 70's. That was a LOT of money. you can pay a lot of rent and college tuition on $3-4K/month, working nights.

Just saying. It's all well and good for those who haven't worked in the biz to mock the idea that paying a higher wage--and eliminating tips--would solve all sorts of issues, but seriously, ask ANY professional waiter you know if he'd prefer that. Or any good cocktail waitress, or bartender. The IRS put a damper on it, with the bullcrap "declare yadda" stuff, because of all of you who think that tipping shouldn't exist EXCEPT for exceptional service, but...it was good dough, back then.

For those of you that do NOT know: the IRS requires that your waitperson declares that they earned a certain percentage tip on your meal ticket. if you don't tip that person, you're not just not tipping them--you're actually costing them money that you never gave them. They are required to declare (I forget how much it is now) on every meal ticket that they serve. So, for those of you who believe that tipping is ONLY for exceptional service (at least, this is here in the US), please remember that. Your waitperson is paying taxes, based on that imaginary tip, based on the amount of your meal. (Or, let me be clear: that's what it was changed to some years ago. It may have changed recently, but I don't believe so.)

Hitch