Google unveils Nexus 9, Nexus 6, Lollipop and more

[tubemonkey]

Devices to get Android 5.0

Android 5.0 Lollipop, which comes on Nexus 6, Nexus 9 and Nexus Player, will also be available on Nexus 4, 5, 7, 10 and Google Play edition devices in the coming weeks.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by Shane R

Blame the consumers for having a value system distinct from yours, not the companies filling the need.

The same consumers who willing paid agency pricing for books.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

The same consumers who willing paid agency pricing for books.

Exactly. Note that the publishers didn't get rid of agency pricing because of pushback from consumers, they got rid of it (temporarily) because they were forced to by the court. This implies that there really was no effective pushback from consumers.

Shari

[EowynCarter]

Well, i think the nexus 6 overpriced. I might still go for it.

Because of the lack of other alternatives. It seams paying $$$ is the only way to have a phone that will be in good working condition for a while.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by shalym

Exactly. Note that the publishers didn't get rid of agency pricing because of pushback from consumers, they got rid of it (temporarily) because they were forced to by the court. This implies that there really was no effective pushback from consumers.

Shari

Well, now...
The Agency years saw massive migration to indie books and also away from vendors with mostly generic BPH catalogs (and no discounts) to Amazon.

Book buyers may not have taken to the streets but a lot of them simply walked away from the higher-priced titles. Passive resistance is still resistance.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by EowynCarter

Well, i think the nexus 6 overpriced. I might still go for it.

Because of the lack of other alternatives. It seams paying $$$ is the only way to have a phone that will be in good working condition for a while.

How about the Nexus 5?

Last year, Google dropped the price of the Nexus 4 by $100 to make room for the Nexus 5. This year, no such move. The Nexus 5 is still in the Play Store with no price changes. Maybe Google is keeping it to give consumers two choices: mid-range and high end. Amazon did just that for their ereaders. When they introduced the $200 Voyage, they kept the $120 Paperwhite 2.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Well, now...
The Agency years saw massive migration to indie books and also away from vendors with mostly generic BPH catalogs (and no discounts) to Amazon.

Book buyers may not have taken to the streets but a lot of them simply walked away from the higher-priced titles. Passive resistance is still resistance.

Yes, of course there was resistance--I never said that there wasn't. I just said that it didn't change the way the publishers did business. I absolutely believe that if people don't like what a business is doing or how a product is priced then they should boycott and let the companies know why they are being boycotted. I was just pointing out to Tubemonkey that his statement

The same consumers who willing paid agency pricing for books.

was absolutely correct, and that the consumers who didn't pay agency prices really didn't effect what the publishers did in any way.

Shari

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by shalym

was absolutely correct, and that the consumers who didn't pay agency prices really didn't effect what the publishers did in any way.

Shari

Not looking for a fight but... they did.
Early in agency ebooks got as high as $16 (at Penguin) and when sales plummeted, the agency gang dropped down to the $13 range Jobs had insisted on. And by late 2012 they were running $11 and lower.
The BPHs wanted a baseline of $15 with occasional sales at $13 but were forced down to a baseline of $13. It was quiet but it happened; the average selling price of ebooks was documented in the trial papers and it showed a big spike and then a gradual decline in response to lower sales.

Check their combined revenue drop in 2010 and 2011, here:

http://www.digitalbookworld.com/2014...actually-make/

Edit: and look at the drop over 2011:

http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/b...ost-books.html

With agency they really shot themselves in both feet and the rear.

Anyway, consumers voting their wallet move markets. Even collusive ones.

[EowynCarter]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

How about the Nexus 5?

Last year, Google dropped the price of the Nexus 4 by $100 to make room for the Nexus 5. This year, no such move. The Nexus 5 is still in the Play Store with no price changes. Maybe Google is keeping it to give consumers two choices: mid-range and high end. Amazon did just that for their ereaders. When they introduced the $200 Voyage, they kept the $120 Paperwhite 2.

Nexus 5 won't add enough to my nexus 4.

I want a large screen, the other decent alternative is the Galaxy Note.
I wouldn't mind less pure power, just give me a large screen and a fluid OS.

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Not looking for a fight but... they did.

I think that shalym's point is that the agency model only went away with government intervention. There had not yet been sufficient reduction in sales to cause price reduction. That point absolutely remains valid.

It is certainly possible, maybe even likely, that the agency model would still be in place had the government not intervened.

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Early in agency ebooks got as high as $16 (at Penguin) and when sales plummeted, the agency gang dropped down to the $13 range Jobs had insisted on. And by late 2012 they were running $11 and lower.
The BPHs wanted a baseline of $15 with occasional sales at $13 but were forced down to a baseline of $13. It was quiet but it happened; the average selling price of ebooks was documented in the trial papers and it showed a big spike and then a gradual decline in response to lower sales.

Check their combined revenue drop in 2010 and 2011, here:

http://www.digitalbookworld.com/2014...actually-make/

Edit: and look at the drop over 2011:

http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/b...ost-books.html

With agency they really shot themselves in both feet and the rear.

Anyway, consumers voting their wallet move markets. Even collusive ones.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by j.p.s

I think that shalym's point is that the agency model only went away with government intervention. There had not yet been sufficient reduction in sales to cause price reduction. That point absolutely remains valid.

It is certainly possible, maybe even likely, that the agency model would still be in place had the government not intervened.

Oh, no question Agency would still be in place.

But Agency wasn't just about raising prices. It was also about *discounting*.
Prices dropped, not because the retailer thought it made sense, but because the publishers discovered (surprise!) that ebook demand was actually elastic.

Shatzkin had a report in mid-2010 from a Penguin exec who was delighted at his new power to raise retail prices, all the way to $17 and gloating at all the extra money he was going to make. Then July came about and Penguin sales were way down and Random House was up 25%… Penguin prices inched down and Penguin started leaning on B&N to pressure RH into getting with the program.

BPH prices never dropped back to early 2010 levels until after the conspiracy was dismantled and they never allowed discounting but they did drop the prices. They had to. And they still lost sales and revenue.

If you look at the numbers from DBW the BPHs have been in decline since the Kindle era began.
(Actually, since before. But the chart doesn't go back that far.)

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Well, now...
The Agency years saw massive migration to indie books and also away from vendors with mostly generic BPH catalogs (and no discounts) to Amazon.

Book buyers may not have taken to the streets but a lot of them simply walked away from the higher-priced titles. Passive resistance is still resistance.

And stupidity is still stupidity. If the BPH have learned their lesson, why the current no holds barred fight to reestablish agency?

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Oh, no question Agency would still be in place.

But Agency wasn't just about raising prices. It was also about *discounting*.

Eliminating discounting is raising prices.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by j.p.s

And stupidity is still stupidity. If the BPH have learned their lesson, why the current no holds barred fight to reestablish agency?

Whoa.
I didn't say they learned their lesson.
Grudgingly inching prices down is no cure for what ails them. Which is they think that everybody else has to bow before them, no matter how stupid, counterproductive, and damaging their policies.
I'm hardly a fan.

In the tug of war of free markets even the stupidest of stupid execs will yield a few inches without changing their stripes. "Live to collude another day" is their mantra.

They do, however, have an advantage over hardware guys who can't afford to dig in their heels very long. If the market tells a hardware vendor their product is inadequate or mis-priced, they have to swallow their pride and drop the price. (Most recently, Amazon with the Fire phone.)

If the Nexus 6 is a miss, Google will know it real soon.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by j.p.s

Eliminating discounting is raising prices.

No.
Discounting is when the retailer chooses whether to drop the price, not the publisher dropping the list price.

That difference is what the current cat fight is about.