Seriousness Time for another rant: Are these questions identical?

Cyberman tM · 10-09-2014, 05:44 AM

Once more I spam the forum because I'm angry at something completely different.
(But where else do you find a large number of people who are known to be well-read?)

Here's my question: Given these two sentences, how do you interpret them, are they equal or do they convey different meanings?

Sentence A: Haven't you finished it yet?
Sentence B: Have you finished it yet?

[edit2]Those sentence were never spoken, one of them was written (or rather, a similar sentence). I took the meaning in a way that others disagreed with, so I'm curious what others think about it.

[edit] I wanted to make a poll, but couldn't think of useful answers that give away my sentiment.

cromag · 10-09-2014, 05:48 AM

Sentence A carries a tone of frustration, of impatience, or of unmet expectations.

Sentence B is more neutral. Without hearing it, I don't know if it's a simple inquiry or an expression of annoyance.

HarryT · 10-09-2014, 06:10 AM

Sentence A has an implicit assumption that the answer will be "no", whereas sentence B is neutral. So no, not the same.

kindlekitten · 10-09-2014, 10:40 AM

Sentence A sounds hostile, angry and possibly demeaning
Sentence B sounds open and encouraging. Depending onthe relationship it almost infers the possibility of help being offered

HomeInMyShoes · 10-09-2014, 10:46 AM

I prefer the sarcastic tone one would read:

Are you going to finish it yet?

I can read A without much frustration as well. It is less likely the case, especially when confronted with option B right away.

Language in itself on paper is relatively inexact. At least it tends to be for me. It is why email is a terrible way to try to come to a common understanding. Only the simplest sentences contain any exact meaning, but then they are boring.

See Spot run. See Spot see Dick. See Spot gnaw Dick's leg off.

HarryT · 10-09-2014, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes

I prefer the sarcastic tone one would read:

Are you going to finish it yet?

That question doesn't make any sense - at least not in British English. You can say "Are you going to finish it?" or "Have you finished it yet?", but not "Are you going to finish it yet?"

Barcey · 10-09-2014, 12:52 PM

Sentence A) indicates that it should have been completed already.

Sentence B) is a general query on the status.

Bilbo1967 · 10-09-2014, 01:12 PM

I think that the information that each would elicit is identical; whether or not "it" is finished. However, the tone of voice implied in them is quite different. The first implies impatience and criticism; the second is neutral, merely asking for information.

HomeInMyShoes · 10-09-2014, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

That question doesn't make any sense - at least not in British English. You can say "Are you going to finish it?" or "Have you finished it yet?", but not "Are you going to finish it yet?"

I know. I was stretching to include yet in it somehow.

twowheels · 10-09-2014, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

That question doesn't make any sense - at least not in British English. You can say "Are you going to finish it?" or "Have you finished it yet?", but not "Are you going to finish it yet?"

As an American English speaker I had the same reaction.

MJK2111 · 10-09-2014, 01:41 PM

What Cromag said...

10-09-2014, 05:44 AM	#1
Cyberman tM Evangelist Posts: 439 Karma: 2248782 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Austria Device: Inkbook Prime; Icarus Illumina;ImcoV6l;EB600;Kobo	Time for another rant: Are these questions identical? Once more I spam the forum because I'm angry at something completely different. (But where else do you find a large number of people who are known to be well-read?) Here's my question: Given these two sentences, how do you interpret them, are they equal or do they convey different meanings? Sentence A: Haven't you finished it yet? Sentence B: Have you finished it yet? [edit2]Those sentence were never spoken, one of them was written (or rather, a similar sentence). I took the meaning in a way that others disagreed with, so I'm curious what others think about it. [edit] I wanted to make a poll, but couldn't think of useful answers that give away my sentiment. Last edited by Cyberman tM; 10-09-2014 at 08:40 AM.

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10-09-2014, 05:48 AM	#2
cromag Surfin the alpha waves ~~ Posts: 26,765 Karma: 459765791 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: New Jersey Device: Jetbook Lite & Mini, Nook STR, Kobo, Hanvon N516, Kindle 2, Androids	Sentence A carries a tone of frustration, of impatience, or of unmet expectations. Sentence B is more neutral. Without hearing it, I don't know if it's a simple inquiry or an expression of annoyance.

10-09-2014, 06:10 AM	#3
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,560 Karma: 93980341 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Sentence A has an implicit assumption that the answer will be "no", whereas sentence B is neutral. So no, not the same.

10-09-2014, 10:40 AM	#4
kindlekitten Professional Adventuress Posts: 13,368 Karma: 50260224 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Olympic Peninsula on the OTHER Washington! (the big green clean one on the west coast!) Device: Kindle, the original! Times Two! and gifting an International Kindle	Sentence A sounds hostile, angry and possibly demeaning Sentence B sounds open and encouraging. Depending onthe relationship it almost infers the possibility of help being offered

10-09-2014, 10:46 AM	#5
HomeInMyShoes Grand Sorcerer Posts: 19,226 Karma: 67780237 Join Date: Jul 2011 Device: none	I prefer the sarcastic tone one would read: Are you going to finish it yet? I can read A without much frustration as well. It is less likely the case, especially when confronted with option B right away. Language in itself on paper is relatively inexact. At least it tends to be for me. It is why email is a terrible way to try to come to a common understanding. Only the simplest sentences contain any exact meaning, but then they are boring. See Spot run. See Spot see Dick. See Spot gnaw Dick's leg off.

10-09-2014, 12:52 PM	#7
Barcey Wizard Posts: 1,531 Karma: 8059866 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Canada Device: Kobo H2O / Aura HD / Glo / iPad3	Sentence A) indicates that it should have been completed already. Sentence B) is a general query on the status.

10-09-2014, 01:12 PM	#8
Bilbo1967 Not scared! Posts: 13,424 Karma: 81011643 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Midlands, UK Device: Kindle Paperwhite 10, Huawei M5 10	I think that the information that each would elicit is identical; whether or not "it" is finished. However, the tone of voice implied in them is quite different. The first implies impatience and criticism; the second is neutral, merely asking for information.

10-09-2014, 01:41 PM	#11
MJK2111 FUBAR! Posts: 1,946 Karma: 15018767 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Woodstock, IL Device: Kindle 3, Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 S	What Cromag said...