EU Announces Changes to VAT on eBooks - Page 2

Mivo · 09-29-2014, 12:12 PM

I didn't forget, I never knew.

Well, that is remarkable, in case of Luxembourg and France. It's great news. Perhaps I am overly cynical when it comes to taxes and their tendency to ever increase. (When VAT went from 14 to 19%, many shops and retailers used the opportunity to increase prices by far more than 5%, too. The same had happened after the switch to the Euro, but that's a different issue altogether.)

dickloraine · 09-29-2014, 07:11 PM

In germany we still have the "sektsteuer" (that is a tax for champaign). It was introduced so that germany could build a fleet for King Wilhelm II. Two world wars later and we still have this tax.

Billi · 09-30-2014, 06:03 AM

Schaumwein- und Zwischenerzeugnissteuergesetz

pdurrant · 09-30-2014, 06:56 AM

This is a very limited ruling, and doesn't really affect non-physical ebooks at all.

I haven't heard anything about the case against France and Luxembourg yet. That's a vital case, as if the court rule against the commission, EU Member states will be able to charge ebooks at the same rate as paper books.

The other big tax change coming up (in just three months!) is that from 1st January 2015, VAT on ebooks (and other things, but I'm concerned here with ebooks) will have to be charged based on the location of the purchaser, not the supplier.

Amazon currently sells ebooks in the EU 'from' Luxembourg, and so only has to charge 3% VAT. From 1st January 2015, they will have to charge the VAT rate based on the customer's location. In the UK, that would mean that VAT on ebooks would rise from 3% to 20%, that is, if the entire rise was passed on, a £5.15 book would rise to £6.00 (numbers chosen for convenience).

Of course, if at the same time EU states were allowed (or required?) to charge the same VAT on ebooks as on paperbooks, a UK consumer would be happy - VAT on books in the UK is 0%!

I really want to hear how the France/Luxembourg case (Case No. 2012/2098) is going, but I haven't found any news.

Sweetpea · 09-30-2014, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mivo

In Germany, books of any kind, not just academic ones, always had a substantially lower VAT than other goods (7% vs. 19% currently). Printed books are considered "a cultural good", but e-books aren't. Yep, they are "services" and treated much like software.

Sorry, I meant ebooks...

Here it's 6% for books and 21% for ebooks. But academic ebooks, and audiobooks, as long as they are on a physical carrier (usb, cd, whatever) were already allowed the 6% rate. But if you only had the download...

DuckieTigger · 09-30-2014, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

Sorry, I meant ebooks...

Here it's 6% for books and 21% for ebooks. But academic ebooks, and audiobooks, as long as they are on a physical carrier (usb, cd, whatever) were already allowed the 6% rate. But if you only had the download...

Download the file onto your usb stick attached to computer?

Or a Amazon terminal where you can bring your own stick ....

Kumabjorn · 09-30-2014, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by happysnapper22

Remember this is the EU, whatever gave you the idea that anything they do is for your benefit. Expect to pay more.

They've actually been quite aggressive in reducing roaming costs for mobile phone usage across the boarders.

Sweetpea · 10-01-2014, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

Download the file onto your usb stick attached to computer?

Or a Amazon terminal where you can bring your own stick ....

Well, there is a publisher here that does sell (or used to sell) ebooks on usb sticks. Simply so they can sell at the 6% VAT rate... It's stupid...

HarryT · 10-01-2014, 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

Well, there is a publisher here that does sell (or used to sell) ebooks on usb sticks. Simply so they can sell at the 6% VAT rate... It's stupid...

They must be awfully expensive books for the saving in VAT to be more than the cost of the USB stick.

owly · 10-01-2014, 04:34 AM

Sweden has been lobbying the EU for years to be allowed to lower the VAT on e-books, that's why I got hopeful, oh well.

Mivo · 10-01-2014, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

They must be awfully expensive books for the saving in VAT to be more than the cost of the USB stick.

I wonder if it's like with the deposit for bottles, and the customer gets the money for the stick back when they return it.

Little.Egret · 10-01-2014, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

They must be awfully expensive books for the saving in VAT to be more than the cost of the USB stick.

In quantity small USB sticks are very cheap - salesmen give them away and people then throw them out because of the virus danger.

Same for selling on CD-ROM, the handling costs more than the disk.

Sweetpea · 10-02-2014, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

They must be awfully expensive books for the saving in VAT to be more than the cost of the USB stick.

Define awefully expensive. If the average price is around 12/13 euro, the cost of the USB stick can probably be paid with the difference between 6% and 21% VAT. And you get a book + usb stick for that price. (and a statement that it's stupid...)

And 12/13 euro is a normal price here...

ApK · 10-02-2014, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little.Egret

In quantity small USB sticks are very cheap - salesmen give them away and people then throw them out because of the virus danger.

Well, the virus-free ones would cost more, obviously.

Billi · 10-02-2014, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

Define awefully expensive. If the average price is around 12/13 euro, the cost of the USB stick can probably be paid with the difference between 6% and 21% VAT. And you get a book + usb stick for that price. (and a statement that it's stupid...)

And 12/13 euro is a normal price here...

I think Harry is right. Make the math for a book that costs 100 Euro netto, the price with 6% VAT is 106 Euro, with 21% is 121 Euro which gives a difference of 15 Euro.
Let the book cost 50 Euro netto you have a difference of 7,50 Euro and so on.

09-30-2014, 06:56 AM	#19
pdurrant The Grand Mouse 高貴的老鼠 Posts: 73,989 Karma: 315160596 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Norfolk, England Device: Kindle Oasis	This is a very limited ruling, and doesn't really affect non-physical ebooks at all. I haven't heard anything about the case against France and Luxembourg yet. That's a vital case, as if the court rule against the commission, EU Member states will be able to charge ebooks at the same rate as paper books. The other big tax change coming up (in just three months!) is that from 1st January 2015, VAT on ebooks (and other things, but I'm concerned here with ebooks) will have to be charged based on the location of the purchaser, not the supplier. Amazon currently sells ebooks in the EU 'from' Luxembourg, and so only has to charge 3% VAT. From 1st January 2015, they will have to charge the VAT rate based on the customer's location. In the UK, that would mean that VAT on ebooks would rise from 3% to 20%, that is, if the entire rise was passed on, a £5.15 book would rise to £6.00 (numbers chosen for convenience). Of course, if at the same time EU states were allowed (or required?) to charge the same VAT on ebooks as on paperbooks, a UK consumer would be happy - VAT on books in the UK is 0%! I really want to hear how the France/Luxembourg case (Case No. 2012/2098) is going, but I haven't found any news. Last edited by pdurrant; 09-30-2014 at 07:00 AM.

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09-29-2014, 12:12 PM	#16
Mivo Fanatic Posts: 556 Karma: 3531054 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Germany Device: In use: Pocketbook InkPad 3, Kobo Glo, iPad Air 2	I didn't forget, I never knew. Well, that is remarkable, in case of Luxembourg and France. It's great news. Perhaps I am overly cynical when it comes to taxes and their tendency to ever increase. (When VAT went from 14 to 19%, many shops and retailers used the opportunity to increase prices by far more than 5%, too. The same had happened after the switch to the Euro, but that's a different issue altogether.)

09-29-2014, 07:11 PM	#17
dickloraine Guru Posts: 631 Karma: 7544528 Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Berlin Device: PRS 350, Kobo Aura	In germany we still have the "sektsteuer" (that is a tax for champaign). It was introduced so that germany could build a fleet for King Wilhelm II. Two world wars later and we still have this tax.

09-30-2014, 06:03 AM	#18
Billi Wizard Posts: 3,388 Karma: 14190103 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Berlin Device: Cybook, iRex, PB, Onyx	Schaumwein- und Zwischenerzeugnissteuergesetz

10-01-2014, 04:34 AM	#25
owly Guru Posts: 729 Karma: 3822612 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Sweden Device: Paperwhite 2, Kobo Aura H2O	Sweden has been lobbying the EU for years to be allowed to lower the VAT on e-books, that's why I got hopeful, oh well.