Are Baen books really that bad?

[taosaur]

No comment on Baen, as I haven't read any of their stuff, but as for this:

Originally Posted by Waylander

The article was the usual tone from this particular journalist, who seems to sneer at anything other than lit-fic and poetry.

I'm not seeing any sign of such an attitude in the linked piece. The guy seems to be speaking as a fan of the genre, particularly the Culture novels, who happens to have some strong ideas about certain sub-genres, publishers, and trends. Is any mention of prose quality to be considered a "sneer," then?

It's admittedly a pet peeve of mine, but the 'persecution' of genre writing at the hands of cruel literature always strikes me as 80% shadow boxing. You're looking at a guy who has clearly read a wide array of science fiction, demonstrating an investment of thought and care in the genre, and you see sneers and think he only likes lit-fic? There's no indication in this article or a brief scan of his blog that he's ever read any lit-fic, and every indication that he's a fan of science fiction. He's a professional fan of science fiction, for reality's sake!

/rant

[RDaneel54]

Originally Posted by tompe

But MacMilllan do not have a political opinions. The problem is not the author's opinions.

Surely you are joking.

[jgaiser]

Never Mind

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by RDaneel54

Surely you are joking.

Remember, people are only allowed to have certain opinions.
Or, only certain people are allowed to have opinions.

Depends on where you're coming from, geographically and hierarchically.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by RDaneel54

Surely you are joking.

Eh, I explained the problem above. How can we as reader know that the books are not selected primarily for political content instead of selected by how good the book is?

I would prefer the publisher to publish book that sell and/or book that are very good.

[RDaneel54]

Originally Posted by tompe

Eh, I explained the problem above. How can we as reader know that the books are not selected primarily for political content instead of selected by how good the book is?

I would prefer the publisher to publish book that sell and/or book that are very good.

And would that not apply for all publishers, not just Baen?

[Manabi]

Originally Posted by meeera

There's nothing inherently extremist-right-wing about military SF as a whole! I read and enjoy plenty of it, and I'm about as leftie as it comes.

Same here, I'm pretty left-wing and I enjoy a lot of military SF. I've also found quite a lot of it, intentionally or not, makes the point very clearly that war is not glorious or fun.

Originally Posted by mgbino

Fair enough. Now stop smacking yourself, it's a bad habit.

But what if gbm enjoys smacking theirself? Surely you don't want to deny that pleasure to them?

Originally Posted by tompe

The problem is the suspicion that sub standard books have been published because they politically agree with the publishers views.

This isn't a problem. If the books are sub-standard, they won't sell well even if they are published. And besides, trying to tell Baen that can't publish whatever the heck they want to would be censorship. Let them (and every other publisher out there) publish what they please and don't buy or read the things you don't like. If Baen (or any other publisher) routinely puts out crap because of a political agenda, sales will drop and they'll go out of business.

Originally Posted by tompe

But MacMilllan do not have a political opinions. The problem is not the author's opinions.

The implication is both, that because Baen has certain political opinions he publishes mostly books that conform to his opinions. Thus the author of this piece is tarring Baen and all Baen authors with the same brush.

Originally Posted by taosaur

There's no indication in this article or a brief scan of his blog that he's ever read any lit-fic, and every indication that he's a fan of science fiction. He's a professional fan of science fiction, for reality's sake!

I do have to question just how good he is at his job to state that Baen "specializes in works of 'military SF'". It doesn't seem like that's even the majority of what the publish, and as others have pointed out in the thread, Baen was founded to publish adventure SF, which certainly includes military, but is not solely military. He may be a sci-fi fan, but he appears to have a blind spot about Baen that extends to not even researching their catalog before making such statements. That's hardly what I consider professional. (But is, sadly, about par for the course for most journalism nowadays. )

[Apache]

Since Jim Baen died June 28, 2006, I doubt he has any political opinions.
Apache

[mgbino]

Originally Posted by Apache

Since Jim Baen died June 28, 2006, I doubt he has any political opinions.
Apache

[SteveEisenberg]

Not knowing much about sci-fi, I just checked out the Wikipedia article on Baen Books and found this first paragraph -- with a footnote to the two-day-old Guardian article linked in the OP here:

Baen Books is an American publishing company established in 1983 by science fiction publisher and editor Jim Baen. It is a science fiction and fantasy publishing house that specializes in military science fiction written for a right-wing readership.[1]

If a Wikipedian is reading this, they might want to look into this. As a Wikipedia user and fan, when I read an obviously controversial statement like this in a Wikipedia article, I don't get upset. Instead, I click on the Talk tab, where I usually see some back and forth on the issue, allowing me to make up my own mind. But, in this case, not only is an obviously controversial statement being presented as fact, there also is no Talk discussion.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

Not knowing much about sci-fi, I just checked out the Wikipedia article on Baen Books and found this first paragraph -- with a footnote to the two-day-old Guardian article linked in the OP here:



If a Wikipedian is reading this, they might want to look into this. As a Wikipedia user and fan, when I read an obviously controversial statement like this in a Wikipedia article, I don't get upset. Instead, I click on the Talk tab, where I usually see some back and forth on the issue, allowing me to make up my own mind. But, in this case, not only is an obviously controversial statement being presented as fact, there also is no Talk discussion.

One of the reasons that Wiki makes a reasonable starting point for research, but has to be taken with a grain of salt.

[Luffy]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

What is your loss is the time you just took to respond to a thread about something you apparently aren't interested in.

You're right.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by RDaneel54

And would that not apply for all publishers, not just Baen?

Of course if the publisher have a stated political opinion that influence the choice of books they publish I want to know about it.

[DrNefario]

I'm very surprised at the suggestion that Baen are not primarily associated with Military SF (and that Mil SF is not primarily associated with Baen). I'd have thought fans and non-fans would accept that. Isn't that what their fans are going there for? Isn't that kind of what it means to be a fan of the Baen brand, and not simply a fan of the individual authors?

It's pretty hard to think of another imprint which is so strongly identified with a small subgenre, and which has such a well-defined identity. Maybe a tie-in publisher, like Black Library.

[darryl]

Originally Posted by tompe

Of course if the publisher have a stated political opinion that influence the choice of books they publish I want to know about it.

Does this mean that you do not want to know about a publisher who has an unstated political opinion that influences the choice of books they publish?

In an earlier post you stated "But MacMilllan do not have a political opinions." With respect, it is naive to believe that any publisher or individual employed by that publisher do not have political opinions. That MacMillan have apparently not stated that opinion means little or nothing. In any case, a good publisher will make sure that any political views they may have do not damage their business. Earlier posts in this thread seem to suggest very strongly that Baen have not let politics influence their choice of what to publish. If you choose to boycott Baen over this rubbish, it will be your loss.