"Why Chromebook Pundits Are Out of Touch"

[Anthem]

Originally Posted by sl42

Nearly every Linux user is a constant repeat customer for Microsoft, even if they never use the product they are paying for.

Those Linux users should purchase their hardware from someone like System76 (who specializes in Ubuntu tailored systems) or build their own systems.

Originally Posted by sl42

Personally, I switched to Linux (Slackware downloaded as floppy disk images from a local BBS) in 1995 having seen and heard a bit about the upcoming Windows 95 by then which I really didn't like one bit and had no desire to use.

My first distribution was Debian. Followed by Red Hat. I never used Windows 95 much as I was using a Mac at the time. However, I rather liked Windows 98SE. It was a big improvement.

Originally Posted by sl42

ChromeOS on the other hand, might be perfect. It is simple and likely to be the most appropriate choice for people not capable of installing another OS. Those who need more capability can go ahead and install Linux, or buy and install Windows. Really that would seem pretty ideal for all users.

Unfortunately, Chromebooks are buttoned down pretty well. You can get a distro on there doing something like a chroot, but that is a compromise, pure and simple. Due to the secure nature of ChromeOS and it's relationship to the hardware that it ships with (which takes a holistic approach to security), putting something else on the machine is not ideal. It can be done, but, like I said, things like a chroot are a compromise.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by Anthem

Unfortunately, Chromebooks are buttoned down pretty well.

Most of them, yeah. But I don't think sl42 was speaking of Chromebooks, but rather suggesting the idea of open, OS-agnostic hardware which would ship with a simple, cheap, easy to use OS like ChromeOS out of the box.

[sl42]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Would not Ubuntu work just as well?

Of course - but the point is that someone who wants a Linux machine is going to install it themselves, even if the manufacturer had already shipped it with their own custom install of some Linux distro on it.

[sl42]

Originally Posted by ApK

No, as the lackluster sales of Linux boxes to date (especially as compared to Chromebooks) Should make self-evident.

Any full Linux distro imposes needless management complexity for the broadest segment of users. I'm not going to argue the fact. It's true.
Your own message #736 in this thread is sufficient proof for most people to whom it applies.

ChromeOS just works, and maintains itself.

If a particular users sees nothing of concern in #736, then that user is free to install Linux, under sl42's plan.

Well, talking about the "lackluster sales of Linux boxes" is a bit silly, since most every "Linux box" shipped as a Windows box. As only a very small percentage of Linux users actually buy machines from places like System-76 (especially since you can get comparable hardware cheaper from other retailers loaded with Windows), Linux machines are very rarely "sold".

[sl42]

Originally Posted by Anthem

Unfortunately, Chromebooks are buttoned down pretty well. You can get a distro on there doing something like a chroot, but that is a compromise, pure and simple. Due to the secure nature of ChromeOS and it's relationship to the hardware that it ships with (which takes a holistic approach to security), putting something else on the machine is not ideal. It can be done, but, like I said, things like a chroot are a compromise.

Chroot would, indeed, be unsatisfactory and obviously not the desired goal. Fortunately you can just replace ChromeOS with no real difficulties - if you don't replace the bios (which may not be possible on all machines?) you will always have to hit CTRL+L to boot. Not ideal, but really who cares - especially if, like me, your computer goes for months without being shut down or rebooted (usually only when I'm cleaning and want to unplug everything and move it out of the way).

[sl42]

Originally Posted by Anthem

Those Linux users should purchase their hardware from someone like System76 (who specializes in Ubuntu tailored systems) or build their own systems.

Except that System-76's stuff is generally rather expensive. Their cheapest Laptop at the moment is $749.00. For me, that's never going to happen. That's about three times my ideal budget for a computer.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by sl42

Of course - but the point is that someone who wants a Linux machine is going to install it themselves, even if the manufacturer had already shipped it with their own custom install of some Linux distro on it.

Um... I thought the whole point was a decent filler OS for the masses, like ChromeOS? I certainly got that impression from what you said, though I could be wrong...:

Originally Posted by sl42

ChromeOS or something similar would be perfect to ship on new hardware.

I'm sure that like me, most Linux users would still do a fresh install of their favorite distro on a newly purchased machine, even if that machine came from the factory with Linux installed and configured according to whatever defaults the manufacturer chose, so I actually wouldn't recommend Linux as a "space-filler" OS since it isn't likely to be a good fit for those not capable of installing it themselves, or needed by those who can.

ChromeOS on the other hand, might be perfect. It is simple and likely to be the most appropriate choice for people not capable of installing another OS. Those who need more capability can go ahead and install Linux, or buy and install Windows. Really that would seem pretty ideal for all users.

So I suggested that Ubuntu would work as well. Anyone who would be happy with ChromeOS would also be happy with the manufacturer-shipped custom Ubuntu install. Because I happen to disagree about:

wouldn't recommend Linux as a "space-filler" OS since it isn't likely to be a good fit for those not capable of installing it themselves, or needed by those who can.

Anyone who would install linux themselves, would do so regardless of whether they are overwriting Ubuntu or ChromeOS.

And if they cannot install it themselves, I happen to think Ubuntu (or Linux Mint), which is very easy to use, would make a better fit than ChromeOS which cannot run many programs. Understandable, since its whole purpose in existing is to make low-powered machines suitable for general-purpose use, as a portal to Google services. On a higher-powered machine, the ability to run all the useful, dedicated programs available in the Software Center -- or just the pre-installed ones -- is a more generally useful usage of that power.

[ApK]

Many vendors have tried to offer systems with Linux installed as less expensive personal computer choices. They failed. They don't sell well. No sign of that changing.
Systems with ChromeOS sell well.
Not sure who I am writing this for, since it is patently obvious to most everyone, and simply pointing out the fact of it is not likely to sway the few of you stubborn enough to claim otherwise.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by ApK

Many vendors have tried to offer systems with Linux installed as less expensive personal computer choices. They failed. They don't sell. No sign of that changing.
Systems with ChromeOS sell well.
Not sure who I am writing this for, since it is patently obvious to most everyone, and simply pointing out the fact of it is not likely to sway the few of you stubborn enough to claim otherwise.

Then again, many vendors have offered those linux systems in obscure corners of their websites, making it hard to buy unless you were specifically looking for it, because they didn't want to upset the apple cart with their vendor deals with Microsoft. I don't really consider any of those failures to be actual attempts, so it doesn't prove they don't sell.

It could very well be they don't sell, but we don't have any meaningful data on the issue.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Then again, many vendors have offered those linux systems in obscure corners of their websites, making it hard to buy unless you were specifically looking for it, because they didn't want to upset the apple cart with their vendor deals with Microsoft. I don't really consider any of those failures to be actual attempts, so it doesn't prove they don't sell.

It could very well be they don't sell, but we don't have any meaningful data on the issue.

There were several lines of Linux desktop systems sold on the shelves of Walmart and CompUSA. They didn't do well.
If they were to try again, and hope to make it successful with consumer mass market, they'd need to:
1. Not call it Linux.
2. Hide all those feature and tools that you call easy and powerful, but most people call complex, unfamilar, unwanted and frightening.

Which is, by the way, exactly what ChromeOS (and Android for that matter) is.
Want the added power? Install it yourself.
The wider market has spoken clearly about what it wants.

[tubemonkey]

O noes, Chromebook killer on the way

HP Stream revealed: Microsoft's Chromebook killer is a Chromebook clone

Microsoft drove out Linux as the platform of choice during the netbook craze, and now the Windows maker is hoping it can do the same to the latest PC upstart, the Chromebook.

Back in July, Microsoft announced its intention in this regard by showing off the Hewlett-Packard Stream, an upcoming $199 laptop designed to take on the Chromebook. Slightly more expensive laptops around $249 are also due in the coming months from Acer and Toshiba.

HP Stream 14 inch notebook coming soon for $199

A few years ago PC makers seemed to be focused on driving up the prices of portable computers by emphasizing premium devices such as thin, light, and powerful ultrabooks priced around $1000 and up. These days it looks like companies are moving in the other direction by launching laptops that are priced competitively with smartphones and tablets.

Microsoft and its partners are promising we’ll see a number of laptops priced at $249 or less this fall. One of them is a the new HP Stream Notebook which is expected to sell for just $199.

[booklover6]

I think I want one! I could use a good quality portable Calibre-capable machine.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by booklover6

I think I want one! I could use a good quality portable Calibre-capable machine.

Not to mention ADE compatible, Audible compatible, OverDrive compatible, and WMA compatible. In other words, book compatible.

That said, I hate Windows!

[Graham]

It's going to be really interesting to see how well the cheap HP Windows machine does.

There should also be some fascinating side-by-side performance reviews with comparably-priced Chromebooks.

[Kumabjorn]

Is Microsoft providing Windows free of charge to HP? Wasn't there something like a 9" screen limitation on that?