Article: The Publishers are as bad as Amazon.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Absolutely. And the author needs to be aware of this when signing such a contract. An author who signs a contract without having all its implications explained to them by a lawyer is acting somewhat unwisely.

As with most things, these things aren't as cut and dried as people claim, nor are such situations unique to the publishing world. Heck, book publishers ended up losing a lot of money when various book stores went belly up without paying off their stock of books. Bankruptcy is a nasty business for all the parties concerned. If I were to sell 1000 computers to a company that then goes bankrupt without paying me, then I can't just take back the computers. It all goes before the judge.

BTW, book publishing contracts aren't an outright sale of the copyright of the books. It is an assignment of the copyright for a period of time, the time being included in the contract. An author can always sue for breach of contract if the contract terms are not followed by whomever purchases the rights in the bankruptcy processes. Any expectations or promises that were not included in the contract are another matter, of course.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

As with most things, these things aren't as cut and dried as people claim, nor are such situations unique to the publishing world. Heck, book publishers ended up losing a lot of money when various book stores went belly up without paying off their stock of books. Bankruptcy is a nasty business for all the parties concerned. If I were to sell 1000 computers to a company that then goes bankrupt without paying me, then I can't just take back the computers. It all goes before the judge.

That's happened to me, too. A store bought a big order of stock of my software, and then went bust before they'd paid me for it. A very expensive episode. I got nothing whatsoever back, because it turned out that the store's owner had gambled away all the company's money.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

Have any examples that have been made public?

I know they can be somewhat hard to put into action at times, but haven't read this specific complaint yet. I have read about authors with older titles getting stuck because their publisher ran a few POD copies to keep a book in print.

Don't think do.
That is one area where the BPHs do enforce NDAs.

Best discussion I've seen was over at the BUSINESS RUSCH in 2012:

http://kriswrites.com/2012/07/25/the....vkblu42S.dpbs

Basically she says that the only way to get reversion these days is by getting a time-limited contract. Everything else is effectively eternal. And then she points out her own experience where she was told only the top sellers get time-limited deals from the Manhattan gang.

Older contracts might revert via lawsuit but it is no sure thing so it takes big courage (and money) to get reversion.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

I doubt retailers will agree to sell a fixed price item at their cost. Staples does need to make money when they sell items at a consistent full price. Near cost? Relatively low markups are typically associated with price maintenance.


The same reason they periodically deep discount every popular item not under price maintenance. It brings people into the stores where they will buy other items that are profitable.

What do you call a store that loses X amount on one third of sales and makes the same amount on two thirds of sales? Profitable. While the fractions I state are too simplified to be real-world, that's the basic strategy of Amazon's US reseller community -- when they are allowed to apply it.

Apparently, Staples doesn't agree with your logic, since they chose not to discount Kindles (aside for the several times when they did mine was a discounted Staples Kindle...).

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Given that a number of authors are quite happy with their publishers, perhaps the real issue is that maybe the author in question might be a bit on the greedy side, or simply doesn't understand why his books didn't do as well as he thought they should. Remember "the publishers" is a pretty big and diverse group of people, not the monolith that some seem to think they are. Publishing contracts aren't the monolith that some think they are either.

And those authors would be the special snowflake authors who are the biggest names.

Authors aren't the monolith that SOME people () think they are either.

[speakingtohe]

I think a lot of authors are reasonably happy with their publishers. I see a lot of backlist books entering the public library system as ebooks that I haven't seen in stores for 20+ years. And these books are being sold as well as ebooks both Amazon and epub.

One example among many is Peter Bowen. AFAIK his books have not been published in paper since 2006. Now they are available on Amazon and in my libraries at least as epub. I don't know this for a fact, but I would think he would be happy with his publishers.

Helen

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

I think a lot of authors are reasonably happy with their publishers. I see a lot of backlist books entering the public library system as ebooks that I haven't seen in stores for 20+ years. And these books are being sold as well as ebooks both Amazon and epub.

One example among many is Peter Bowen. AFAIK his books have not been published in paper since 2006. Now they are available on Amazon and in my libraries at least as epub. I don't know this for a fact, but I would think he would be happy with his publishers.

Helen

That will depend on how his publishers define "net".

[gweeks]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

I think a lot of authors are reasonably happy with their publishers. I see a lot of backlist books entering the public library system as ebooks that I haven't seen in stores for 20+ years. And these books are being sold as well as ebooks both Amazon and epub.

One example among many is Peter Bowen. AFAIK his books have not been published in paper since 2006. Now they are available on Amazon and in my libraries at least as epub. I don't know this for a fact, but I would think he would be happy with his publishers.

Most of the Peter Bowen ebboks are coming out from Open Road Media. They aren't a traditional publishing company. They are a mostly backlist, ebook only publisher.

Greg Weeks

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by gweeks

Most of the Peter Bowen ebboks are coming out from Open Road Media. They aren't a traditional publishing company. They are a mostly backlist, ebook only publisher.

Greg Weeks

His original publishers were Minotaur Press or St. martins Press, part of Macmillan Publishers who are considered Big Five I believe.

I am thinking they must have authorized or contracted for the books to be published but of course perhaps he had a special contract. But there are, IMO, tons of midlist and/or obscure authors who are being republished in ebook form. And many are very popular although not best sellers. I assume, perhaps wrongly, that the majority are probably quite happy with the situation.

Helen

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by shalym

SteveEisenberg, do you have any real verifiable source to say that Amazon doesn't allow discounting of it's devices by the resellers?

First of all, I said that eInk Kindles appear to be under retail price maintenance. While I don't see any new Fires for half off, the discounts are bigger than for the Paperwhite or basic model.

As for a verifiable source, price maintenance agreements are secret. However, you are absolutely right that I have not proved my claim.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

As part of the bid terms, they offered to revert the titles if the author preferred not to sign with AP. They did not have to do either.

Correct. but whomever it was that accepted those bid terms (bankruptcy court?) didn't have to accept the Amazon bid if it was too miserly.

There are many titles that no solvent publisher has purchased, and those authors also get reversion rights:

http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat...authors_b58967

[gweeks]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

His original publishers were Minotaur Press or St. martins Press, part of Macmillan Publishers who are considered Big Five I believe.

I am thinking they must have authorized or contracted for the books to be published but of course perhaps he had a special contract. But there are, IMO, tons of midlist and/or obscure authors who are being republished in ebook form. And many are very popular although not best sellers. I assume, perhaps wrongly, that the majority are probably quite happy with the situation.

I think it's more likely he got the rights back or never sold the ebook rights and found a different publisher to do the ebooks. Macmillan has their own ebook offerings and wouldn't likely sub the ebook rights out.

Greg

[shalym]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

First of all, I said that eInk Kindles appear to be under retail price maintenance. While I don't see any new Fires for half off, the discounts are bigger than for the Paperwhite or basic model.

As for a verifiable source, price maintenance agreements are secret. However, you are absolutely right that I have not proved my claim.

Did you bother to look at the link I provided to Amazon's Kindle resale program? There is absolutely no minimum price requirement mentioned for selling Kindles.

Shari

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

Correct. but whomever it was that accepted those bid terms (bankruptcy court?) didn't have to accept the Amazon bid if it was too miserly.

Note that there are many titles that no solvent publisher has purchased, and those authors also get reversion rights:

http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat...authors_b58967

Right. It was a bankuptcy court auction.
The authors had zero say.
If Amazon had outbid everybody else without being author friendly they still would have gotten the contracts.

The point is the authors have no control once they sign the deal; the contract can be sold, traded, or even gifted.

Every author gets to weigh the pros and cons for themselves but when you're making a deal that lasts a century the potential for remorse is very high.

For example: ebook rights (when they were explicitly mentioned at all) were originally lumped in under subsidiary rights at 50% of list. Then it got changed to a pbook-like 15% of list. Not content, the publishers changed it enmasse few years back, around 2009, to 25% of net. In at least one publisher's case, the amendments went out to authors directly, bypassing the agents. Big todo all over. (I saw it all unfold at Teleread.)

One of many reports:
http://www.teleread.com/ebooks/simon...ook-royalties/

Fast forward a few years and mass market paperbacks are vanishing, print shelf space is down by half... and ebooks are the most profitable format around but not for tradpub authors.

Look around and you'll find plenty of other similar stories.

The life of midlist authors has never been easy: the biggest change is that what happens in Manhattan no longer stays in manhattan, now it shows up online for readers and other interested parties to see.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

First of all, I said that eInk Kindles appear to be under retail price maintenance. While I don't see any new Fires for half off, the discounts are bigger than for the Paperwhite or basic model.

As for a verifiable source, price maintenance agreements are secret. However, you are absolutely right that I have not proved my claim.

cum hoc, ergo propter hoc -- fallacy of presumption.