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Old 07-21-2014, 10:29 AM   #436
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Originally Posted by Catlady View Post
He explained it in a forum post. He does NOT say that he made changes to text in the upload.
Yes, you are right here. He definitely should have acknowledged it in the upload post, no question about it.

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Clearly this is not something he considered an error, and he has not changed it despite vehement objections that followed when he told the forum what he'd done.
I can only repeat myself, he has no reason to change it back. He made this decision, he uploaded a modernised version and this is his good right with public domain books (yes, sometimes unfortunately).

We have two versions of this book here, one by Patricia that follows closely the original, one by AlexBell that modernised spelling and some wording. We can chose which one to read and I am sure that AlexBell's version might be preferred by some for they find it easier to read.
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Old 07-21-2014, 11:36 AM   #437
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So you're perfectly happy to dictate terms to the people who do the work, but not willing to do a stroke of work yourself. Is that a fair summary?
No. It's completely unfair and irrelevant.

Do you ever express an opinion of what an elected official does? Does that mean you need to run for office yourself?

I'm not going to do someone's job for them. The people who upload are responsible for what they share. If I ever uploaded material, I would proofread it.

I asked you directly, how would a proofreader going through already posted material be able to ensure that the uploader made any corrections? I'm waiting for the answer.
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Old 07-21-2014, 11:38 AM   #438
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I asked you directly, how would a proofreader going through already posted material be able to ensure that the uploader made any corrections? I'm waiting for the answer.
Ask them in advance whether or not they're willing to. I can't imagine any book uploader NOT wanting corrections.
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Old 07-21-2014, 11:45 AM   #439
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Ask them in advance whether or not they're willing to. I can't imagine any book uploader NOT wanting corrections.
Really? Did AlexBell undo his alteration in his upload? Did he create a footnote or otherwise indicate that he had made a change?
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Old 07-21-2014, 11:49 AM   #440
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Really? Did AlexBell undo his alteration in his upload? Did he create a footnote or otherwise indicate that he had made a change?
That was not an "error" - it was a deliberate editorial decision. Proof-reading is about finding errors. The fact that you disagree with an editorial decision doesn't make it "wrong". Create some books yourself, and then YOU'LL get to make that decision.
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Old 07-21-2014, 11:59 AM   #441
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That was not an "error" - it was a deliberate editorial decision..
So in that case, either footnote deliberate changes or say upfront that language has been modified to refect modern sensibilities or whatever.
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Old 07-21-2014, 12:05 PM   #442
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So in that case, either footnote deliberate changes or say upfront that language has been modified to refect modern sensibilities or whatever.
That would certainly be my preference, but it's not something that you can "make" someone do.
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Old 07-21-2014, 12:07 PM   #443
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Originally Posted by Catlady View Post
I asked you directly, how would a proofreader going through already posted material be able to ensure that the uploader made any corrections? I'm waiting for the answer.
As I pointed out earlier, there is a thread associated with each upload. A proofreader can post details in that thread of any modifications or errors found, ensuring that, even if the book itself is not updated, those details are there for all downloaders to see.

/JB
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Old 07-21-2014, 12:15 PM   #444
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That would certainly be my preference, but it's not something that you can "make" someone do.
Perhaps not, but you can have a guideline requesting uploaders to note if textual changes have been made. I think in most cases, given that uploaders are motivated by altruism and a love of books, that would be sufficient. I really don't think we have a bunch of uploaders who are trying to undermine world lit without being noticed.
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Old 07-21-2014, 12:18 PM   #445
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That was not an "error" - it was a deliberate editorial decision. Proof-reading is about finding errors. The fact that you disagree with an editorial decision doesn't make it "wrong". Create some books yourself, and then YOU'LL get to make that decision.
So now making a change to the text is an editorial decision?

It IS wrong to change text without noting it.

You thought so earlier in this thread; now you think it's a matter of editorial discretion? And you wonder why I regard the MR library as suspect?
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Old 07-21-2014, 12:19 PM   #446
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Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
As I pointed out earlier, there is a thread associated with each upload. A proofreader can post details in that thread of any modifications or errors found, ensuring that, even if the book itself is not updated, those details are there for all downloaders to see.

/JB
That is not part of the download file.
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Old 07-21-2014, 12:30 PM   #447
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Perhaps not, but you can have a guideline requesting uploaders to note if textual changes have been made. I think in most cases, given that uploaders are motivated by altruism and a love of books, that would be sufficient. I really don't think we have a bunch of uploaders who are trying to undermine world lit without being noticed.
So what should be done with someone who doesn't follow the guidelines, then? Since you and Catlady both agree that it is a grievous crime, should the offender be banned from the forum? Should he be banned from uploading? Should he be drawn and quartered? Or...should someone who is very very worried about it maybe do something to fix the problem? Something like maybe posting about the issue in the thread related to the uploaded book file? Or possibly creating a corrected version of the file and uploading it to the library and posting that your version is definitively based on what you hope is the definitive print version?

As for Catlady's question about criticizing polititians:
Quote:
Do you ever express an opinion of what an elected official does? Does that mean you need to run for office yourself?
Expressing an opinion is one thing...that is NOT what you are doing. You are demanding that changes be made. In that case, then yes--if someone is that adamant that change needs to happen, then yes...the best way to ensure that the change actually happens is to run for office herself, or at least work to get a favored politician elected. In other words, actions speak louder than words. If all you can do is complain about something, all you are is a complainer, and really truly not worth listening to.

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Old 07-21-2014, 12:35 PM   #448
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So now making a change to the text is an editorial decision?
Yes, of course it is. That's what the word "editing" means.
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Old 07-21-2014, 12:45 PM   #449
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It IS wrong to change text without noting it.
But it's not WRONG. Right/wrong isn't even applicable. It's simply something that you, Harry, I and others WISH people wouldn't do without noting it. It's out of copyright. It can't be protected--no matter how much we might wish it could. It's Public Domain. It belongs to everybody and nobody at the same time. Thinking the text should be sacrosanct isn't enough to actually make it so.

At the same time, though... I think there's enough like-minded people out there to ensure that these respected works will always be respected by someone--regardless of the medium. Besides, someone else reading a shitty adaptation doesn't affect my enjoyment (and love) of the "real-deal" one bit.
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Old 07-21-2014, 12:48 PM   #450
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I find the MR library valuable and appreciate the hard work going into it.

I am not at all worried about a few 'editorial decisions' but have no doubt that some people are and that is totally up to them.

I don't find changing gay to light hearted offensive, although I don't think it was necessary or the best thing to do. Most of the English speaking world understands the original meaning.

I just find it a tad disturbing that people jumped all over someone for something that they did in good faith. No one IIRC politely asked him to change it back. Or provide two versions. I don't know why he withdrew the epub version of his book, but I can imagine a few reasons.

And he did admit it in this thread. No one discovered it and complained.

If the books on MR are so bad why is there not a torrent of complaints? I have seen a very long thread about commercial ebook errors.

I am of the strong opinion that the people who upload to MR are doing a superior job to the proofreaders of commercial ebooks although those have certainly improved in the last two or three years. It is strictly a labour of love at MR, no one pays them money.

While I might like to believe that the written word is sacrosanct, and contains nothing but beauty and truth I know it isn't so.

While a scholar might look elsewhere for an exact rendition, I am more than happy with MR and project Guttenberg, and in my limited experience the MR ones are better.

I am not going to go and proofread someone's upload as I have not the resources, time or energy. If I saw an error while reading I would of course mention it and up to the uploader what they did. After all I could be in error myself or there could be many versions.

I do find it strange that most of the bitter squawking comes only on a book that the uploader disclosed his changes in this thread or another one. Obviously his intent was not to trick or harm anyone. Where are all of the examples of other discrepancies? It is like throwing out a box of apples because one was mildly bruised.

Helen

Last edited by speakingtohe; 07-21-2014 at 12:51 PM.
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