Dangerously e-books: How do I know if my ebooks have been altered?

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by issybird

I think Catlady's position and attitude are being grossly misrepresented. It seems to me that all she's saying, and she can correct me if I'm wrong, is that if people change the text of a book they upload they should note it.

This seems eminently reasonable to me. The words that the author wrote should be sacrosanct. Surely those who love books enough to go to the very great effort of uploading them are not in favor of unnoted bowdlerization! I don't see any sense of entitlement, or that people should do things her way, or any of the rest of it. Indeed, I think she's been made a straw man, since the real issue as I see it should be uploaders who emend texts and taint the pristine works by association. I also don't think it would be a big deal to have a guideline that said something to the effect that, "any changes in the text should be noted" and that would protect the uploaders as well as the readers.

I really do assume everyone's essentially on the same side! I don't understand the acrimony, the shouting, the personal criticisms, or any of the rest of it.

Thank you. I guess it's more fun for people to continue to misrepresent what I've said, since there really is no argument to be made AGAINST having an accurate transcription.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by Catlady

Thank you. I guess it's more fun for people to continue to misrepresent what I've said, since there really is no argument to be made AGAINST having an accurate transcription.

... except for the depth to which you should care.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by doubleshuffle

The way you keep on demanding that the books here should not only be given to you free of charge and be subject to a professional proofing service without being willing to put in any effort yourself tells a lot about your attitude.

That you keep on insinuating that the Mobileread library is full of hack jobs without any standards is a serious insult. You feel entitled to this insult in the face of being given authoritative, painstakingly proofread editions of many classics by HarryT; beautifully crafted and exclusive (literally: not to be found anywhewre else) complete editions by pynch; the most beautiful illustrated ebook editions of Mark Twain's works that you can imagine by GrannyGrump; the best ebook edition of Shelley's poetry available anywhere by charleski; countless books that are only available as pdf-scans elsewhere, which have been OCRed and formatted for the Mobileread library by many uploaders who put in countless hours of work - and so on. You get it all for free here, and won't stop complaining and thus insulting all uploaders, and yet you feel insulted?

It's been a while since I met someone with such a shameless sense of entitlement.

This is a load of crap.

I'll state it in one sentence: If you're going to upload a book, IT IS WRONG TO MAKE CHANGES to the text without clearly noting those changes.

Is that simple and understandable enough for you?

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Catlady

I'll state it in one sentence: If you're going to upload a book, IT IS WRONG TO MAKE CHANGES to the text without clearly noting those changes.

If that's you're only point, then I don't know why you would get the impression that anyone's actually disagreeing with you. What people are disagreeing with you about is what--if anything--can be done about it. The answer to the OP's original question is still "you don't ... and you probably never will be able to."

What could, Mobileread for example, do to give you the peace of mind to start trusting it enough to download public domain books from their library?

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

If that's you're only point, then I don't know why you would get the impression that anyone's actually disagreeing with you.

Oh, I dunno, could be the insults and the pushback and the accusations of paranoia and the attempts to trivialize and marginalize the belief that there should be a respect for the text? I'm funny that way.

What people are disagreeing with you about is what--if anything--can be done about it. The answer to the OP's original question is still "you don't ... and you probably never will be able to."

For a start, admit that there IS a problem inherent with digital books--and I'm speaking of public domain books, basically. Stop making silly comparisons with print books being changed, because the situations are completely different.

What could, Mobileread for example, do to give you the peace of mind to start trusting it enough to download public domain books from their library?

Why would it be so difficult to have some guidelines for uploaders? Guidelines that say changes to text should not be made, unless clearly noted? Guidelines asking the uploader to note if the material has or has not been proofread? Guidelines asking for the source material to be stated?

Of course guidelines can be ignored. But at the very least, they can serve as reminders.

I would think that the people who put in a lot of careful effort would be the first ones who would want to encourage others to be equally painstaking. But apparently not, and that's rather sad.

[eschwartz]

There is nothing wrong with reminders. Reminders are a wonderful idea. If you think they will be any protection from what you fear, though, you are sadly mistaken.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

... except for the depth to which you should care.

I have to say, you aren't helping.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

What could, Mobileread for example, do to give you the peace of mind to start trusting it enough to download public domain books from their library?

That's easy. Require everybody who posts books to state if the text was changed (other then errors) or not. Also, if the poster knows the version, then please state it if it. And finally post where the text came from.

This is not all that hard. If the version is not available, then we can go have a look at the source of the text and see if we can find out ourselves if we want to know.

This would work for me.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Catlady

Why would it be so difficult to have some guidelines for uploaders? Guidelines that say changes to text should not be made, unless clearly noted? Guidelines asking the uploader to note if the material has or has not been proofread? Guidelines asking for the source material to be stated?

Of course guidelines can be ignored. But at the very least, they can serve as reminders.

And if MR were to do all that, you wouldn't have any more reservations concerning the trustworthyness of their public domain library?

I'm truly not trying to be a smartass, I'm just trying to ascertain whether there's anything they could do to make this situation "right" in your mind. Not a good start, not a step in the right direction, but an honest to goodness solution to the problem. Is there one in your mind? If the problem is indeed inherent, as you say, in digital books, then why the cry for something to be done?

What about a disclaimer?

"These books are in the public domain. And as much as we might like them to be absolutely true to the original texts (and many of our uploaders in fact are), the fact of the matter is, the same rules that make them public domain (and able to be freely uploaded and distributed) make them fair game for any and all alterations the uploader sees fit to make to them (with or without acknowledgment that they've done so). Download at your own risk."

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I have to say, you aren't helping.

I am pointing out the inherent silliness of the whole issue. If that doesn't help people get over their bug, it is no because I am being unhelpful, it is because they don't want the help.

Your starting assumption was that there is a problem here, and for that reason, you think I was unhelpful. But... I challenge your assumption.

[Rev. Bob]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I have to say, you aren't helping.

Remind me to quote you on this over in the Modify EPUB thread, in reference to your own obtuseness over there.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Your starting assumption was that there is a problem here, and for that reason, you think I was unhelpful. But... I challenge your assumption.

The problem is that if one person modifies the text of the eBook (and it's been admitted, but wasn't made public in the eBook's thread) then the question is how many other eBooks have been modified without our knowing it?

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

What about a disclaimer?

Oooooh, a disclaimer! That sounds fun!

Kind of like:

"Warning: May contain nuts." -- On a package of peanuts.

Only with ebooks.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The problem is that if one person modifies the text of the eBook (and it's been admitted, but wasn't made public in the eBook's thread) then the question is how many other eBooks have been modified without our knowing it?

I have already stated that I challenge your assumption that that is a problem.

[doubleshuffle]

Originally Posted by Catlady

This is a load of crap.

I'll state it in one sentence: If you're going to upload a book, IT IS WRONG TO MAKE CHANGES to the text without clearly noting those changes.

Is that simple and understandable enough for you?

What I've been saying for ages (can you read at all? If not, why do you worry so much about textual changes?) is that agreement on this has been reached long ago in this thread and that your ignoring that fact is an insult. It still is. You get free stuff into which people have put countless hours of work; a problem about textual changes has been pointed out and discussed, in which process virtually all of the regular uploaders have come forward and declared that they adhere to the policy you demand as far as is humanly possible. And yet you go on and on pretending that uploaders just don't care about the texts they upload and you arrogantly refuse to help improve the quality of the texts. It's simply unbelievable.