Piracy is necessary and doesn't hurt revenues

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Catlady

Well, perhaps I am especially dim, but I've attempted to figure out several times how to purchase geo-restricted material, and it seems quite daunting and confusing. Isn't it illegal anyway? Just as illegal as pirating? Why condone one but not the other?

No, it's not illegal. At least not in either the US or the UK.

Easiest thing to do, though, if you want a TV show that's not available in your country, is to buy the DVD. Most shows end up on DVD.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Catlady

Well, perhaps I am especially dim, but I've attempted to figure out several times how to purchase geo-restricted material, and it seems quite daunting and confusing. Isn't it illegal anyway? Just as illegal as pirating? Why condone one but not the other?

It is not illegal for a consumer to buy geo-restricted material.

It is illegal to sell it, in most cases, because somebody else owns the right to sell or distribute the product to that market by contract. Knowingly selling the "wrong" version to a consumer is violating the terms of a contract.

The consumer, on the other hand, may or not be violating the terms of service, which may or not even be actionable.

And again, the issue with piracy is the creator is not compensated for the consumption of their product. Out of region purchases are still purchases.

The best description of piracy I've ever seen is from Eric Flint at BAEN who equates it to shoplifting. It is petty theft and a cost of doing business. He doesn't fret over it but neither does he condone it.

False equivalencies only confuse the issue.

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

It is not illegal for a consumer to buy geo-restricted material.

It is illegal to sell it, in most cases, because somebody else owns the right to sell or distribute the product to that market by contract. Knowingly selling the "wrong" version to a consumer is violating the terms of a contract.

The consumer, on the other hand, may or not be violating the terms of service, which may or not even be actionable.

And again, the issue with piracy is the creator is not compensated for the consumption of their product. Out of region purchases are still purchases.

The best description of piracy I've ever seen is from Eric Flint at BAEN who equates it to shoplifting. It is petty theft and a cost of doing business. He doesn't fret over it but neither does he condone it.

False equivalencies only confuse the issue.

My point is that the illegal sales of geo-restricted material is enforced in one media (streaming/downloading) and not enforced (by physical sales). it's the same law being broken, either way...

I don't equate selective enforcement with legality.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

My point is that the illegal sales of geo-restricted material is enforced in one media (streaming/downloading) and not enforced (by physical sales). it's the same law being broken, either way...

How many times does it have to be said?

BUYING DVDS FROM A DIFFERENT REGION IS NOT ILLEGAL.

BUYING DVDS FROM A DIFFERENT REGION IS NOT ILLEGAL.

BUYING DVDS FROM A DIFFERENT REGION IS NOT ILLEGAL.

BUYING DVDS FROM A DIFFERENT REGION IS NOT ILLEGAL.

BUYING DVDS FROM A DIFFERENT REGION IS NOT ILLEGAL.

BUYING DVDS FROM A DIFFERENT REGION IS NOT ILLEGAL.

BUYING DVDS FROM A DIFFERENT REGION IS NOT ILLEGAL.

BUYING DVDS FROM A DIFFERENT REGION IS NOT ILLEGAL.

BUYING DVDS FROM A DIFFERENT REGION IS NOT ILLEGAL.

BUYING DVDS FROM A DIFFERENT REGION IS NOT ILLEGAL.

Has the message got through yet, Ralph?

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by HarryT

How many times does it have to be said?

BUYING DVDS FROM A DIFFERENT REGION IS NOT ILLEGAL.

BUYING DVDS FROM A DIFFERENT REGION IS NOT ILLEGAL.

BUYING DVDS FROM A DIFFERENT REGION IS NOT ILLEGAL.

BUYING DVDS FROM A DIFFERENT REGION IS NOT ILLEGAL.

BUYING DVDS FROM A DIFFERENT REGION IS NOT ILLEGAL.

BUYING DVDS FROM A DIFFERENT REGION IS NOT ILLEGAL.

BUYING DVDS FROM A DIFFERENT REGION IS NOT ILLEGAL.

BUYING DVDS FROM A DIFFERENT REGION IS NOT ILLEGAL.

BUYING DVDS FROM A DIFFERENT REGION IS NOT ILLEGAL.

BUYING DVDS FROM A DIFFERENT REGION IS NOT ILLEGAL.

Has the message got through yet, Ralph?

SELLING DVDS FROM A DIFFERENT REGION IS AS ILLEGAL AS BYPASSING GEO-RESTRICTION FOR LEGALLY PURCHASED STREAMING/DOWNLOAD MATERIAL

SELLING DVDS FROM A DIFFERENT REGION IS AS ILLEGAL AS BYPASSING GEO-RESTRICTION FOR LEGALLY PURCHASED STREAMING/DOWNLOAD MATERIAL

SELLING DVDS FROM A DIFFERENT REGION IS AS ILLEGAL AS BYPASSING GEO-RESTRICTION FOR LEGALLY PURCHASED STREAMING/DOWNLOAD MATERIAL

SELLING DVDS FROM A DIFFERENT REGION IS AS ILLEGAL AS BYPASSING GEO-RESTRICTION FOR LEGALLY PURCHASED STREAMING/DOWNLOAD MATERIAL

SELLING DVDS FROM A DIFFERENT REGION IS AS ILLEGAL AS BYPASSING GEO-RESTRICTION FOR LEGALLY PURCHASED STREAMING/DOWNLOAD MATERIAL

Has the message got through yet, Harry?[

[HarryT]

No, Ralph, it is not the same. That's the whole point. You say:

illegal sales of geo-restricted material is enforced in one media (streaming/downloading) and not enforced (by physical sales). it's the same law being broken, either way...

If I buy a Region 1 DVD from a US store, such as "amazon.com", it is not an "illegal sale", and no law is being broken, either by Amazon or by me.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by HarryT

BUYING DVDS FROM A DIFFERENT REGION IS NOT ILLEGAL.

But a DVD is a physical object. I don't need to jump through hoops to falsify my location to buy a DVD (or a paper book) from Amazon UK. I would need to falsify to purchase a digital file of the same material. Why should there be this distinction?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Catlady

But a DVD is a physical object. I don't need to jump through hoops to falsify my location to buy a DVD (or a paper book) from Amazon UK. I would need to falsify to purchase a digital file of the same material. Why should there be this distinction?

Because the publisher has imposed licensing restrictions on one, but not on the other. Why? Ask the publisher.

That's why I say that if you want to want a TV show that's not available to you, buy the DVD. Perfectly legal sale, and no hassle for anyone.

[CRussel]

Behave yourselves, children. Yelling doesn't make your point right or clearer.

Pirating is stealing without paying. Bypassing geo-restrictions to PAY for something is different, and while it may be a violation of the conditions of sale, it isn't stealing.

I don't pirate when there is any alternative. (Harry Potter comes to mind, and like someone else in this thread, I bought the instant the books became available legally.) I do routinely bypass geo-restrictions to watch content from my _paid_ subscriptions in the US. On devices and applications bought with US dollars in US stores and shipped to US addresses.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by CRussel

Behave yourselves, children. Yelling doesn't make your point right or clearer.

Pirating is stealing without paying. Bypassing geo-restrictions to PAY for something is different, and while it may be a violation of the conditions of sale, it isn't stealing.

I don't pirate when there is any alternative. (Harry Potter comes to mind, and like someone else in this thread, I bought the instant the books became available legally.) I do routinely bypass geo-restrictions to watch content from my _paid_ subscriptions in the US. On devices and applications bought with US dollars in US stores and shipped to US addresses.

Ultimately, we are discussing the letter of the law verses the spirit of the law. Buying Geo-restricted DVD's violates the spirit of any law that enforces Geo-restriction, even if it doesn't violate the letter of the law. For the most part, what the author of the article described is not piracy.

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Ultimately, we are discussing the letter of the law verses the spirit of the law. Buying Geo-restricted DVD's violates the spirit of any law that enforces Geo-restriction, even if it doesn't violate the letter of the law. For the most part, what the author of the article described is not piracy.

Here is the US letter of the law (from the Digital Millenium Copyright Act):

No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title...; to “circumvent a technological measure” means to descramble a scrambled work, to decrypt an encrypted work, or otherwise to avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or impair a technological measure, without the authority of the copyright owner.

A region code (in the US) qualified as a "technological measure".

I make no comment on othe countries' laws....

[HarryT]

What law do you imagine you'd be breaking if you were to buy, say, a Region 2 DVD player, and play a Region 2 DVD on it?

[mgbino]

Originally Posted by Catlady

Well, perhaps I am especially dim, but I've attempted to figure out several times how to purchase geo-restricted material, and it seems quite daunting and confusing. Isn't it illegal anyway? Just as illegal as pirating? Why condone one but not the other?

1. Because piracy deprives the creators of royalties. Importing doesn't

2. My job is to locate pirates, so I have a financial interest in doing so. My job is not to track people that use VPNs.

3. It's not illegal to purchase from a different territory, but it's a violation to sell out of territory (for digital content, no idea about physical mediums.)

4. Download CyberGhost VPN, pick country you want to "live" in, and no more geographic restrictions.

[jandrew]

If you read her blog article, she used to frown on a young relative of hers illegally downloading content ("Do you steal bread from the baker as well?") until he outsmarted her:

See, this kid is wicked smart and he's way too informed to be fooled by the baker/bread line. I stopped using it when he replied with: "if we're talking about a real baker who still gets up at 3AM and hand-kneads a dough made of honest ingredients...no, I wouldn't steal from him. But if we're talking about a massive industrial chain who put all the honest bakers out of business, because they lobbied the government for permission to produce fast food trash that can hardly be described as bread...yeah, I totally steal from them.

That was the first point he scored and it was only the beginning.

And the entitlement to steal (from the evil empire) rationalization gets worse ... fast.

[EowynCarter]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Because the publisher has imposed licensing restrictions on one, but not on the other. Why? Ask the publisher.

That's why I say that if you want to want a TV show that's not available to you, buy the DVD. Perfectly legal sale, and no hassle for anyone.

How do I buy DVD from game of throne season 4?
Oh, wait, I can't, they're not out yet.

Probably in about one year.... That's too long! That's not reasonable.