Amazon: Business As Usual?

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

The tools have been updated quite a few times for enhancements as well as bug fixes but the original 2008 python script still decrypts a book that I bought from Amazon last week.

Then perhaps I remembered wrong.

I cannot test it as I don't have the old tools archived.

[eschwartz]

Granted that there is an option to Report Content Error(s), but has anyone EVER had their book updated with corrected spelling after reporting one?

I've sent in plenty of corrections, never gotten a book updated (at least not those ones).

I don't think Amazon will actually force the publisher to update the book except perhaps in seriously error-filled books.

[TimW]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Granted that there is an option to Report Content Error(s), but has anyone EVER had their book updated with corrected spelling after reporting one?

I've sent in plenty of corrections, never gotten a book updated (at least not those ones).

I don't think Amazon will actually force the publisher to update the book except perhaps in seriously error-filled books.

I've noticed books taken down from time to time until repairs are done. This HarperCollins book I purchased a few months ago shows unavailable with an "Under Repair" banner on it.
http://www.amazon.com/Krakatoa-World...words=krakatoa

At one point, I could have linked the page from MYK before it became Manage-Your-Content-&-Whatever showing updated books. I'm not sure at the moment.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

You seem to be in a rush to put words in my mouth. For the most part, monopolies don't last, barring government enforcement of the monopoly. Other companies see the opportunity and move into the space. For example, Microsoft's Internet Explorer (the one that triggered the Anti-Trust lawsuit against Microsoft in 1998 that eventually got overturned on appeal when the judge was found to have bias in the case. hum, sounds kind of familiar) has dropped in usage all the way down to 19% of the market. It didn't happen over night and the original competition (Netscape) dropped by the wayside, but Microsoft got complacent and new competition came into the arena.

IMPO, Amazon is ripe for competition in the ebook arena. The only real barrier of entry is getting the contracts to sale the various ebooks and DRM. If the publishers ever drop the DRM, then I suspect we will see a number of companies who offer books in various formats.

You are right. I took your saying that Amazon needed to stay focused and in danger of becoming complacent an distracted to mean that you thought they already were. My mistake and I apologise.

I also agree that Amazon will eventually have stiff competition, although I don't think it will be this year or next.

I think that they are juggling too many balls, and I have seen a few of them drop already. But that is just my opinion.

I don't agree that they are a monopoly, although they do have a pretty strong position in the book market and many others.

I am aware of the Internet Explorer/Netscape examples although I was unaware that either was a monopoly. My understanding was with Internet Explorer the big objection was that it was packaged with Windows, which it still seems to be. And 19% does not seem a really shabby position.

And why would DRM have anything to do with competition in the ebook market? Publishers and authors can sell with it or without it at more than one place already including Amazon, and including of course their own stores if they have them or want to start them and most publishers and authors seem to feel it advantageous to sell with it.

Hope I am not putting words in your mouth again, and my sincere apologies for my wrong conclusion.

Helen

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Granted that there is an option to Report Content Error(s), but has anyone EVER had their book updated with corrected spelling after reporting one?

I've sent in plenty of corrections, never gotten a book updated (at least not those ones).

I don't think Amazon will actually force the publisher to update the book except perhaps in seriously error-filled books.

I don't think they should be able to force a publisher to update a book although they should be able to refuse to carry it if it is ugly.

I'm wondering how many books get reported and what action Amazon takes or should be expected to take. If they give an option to report content error, that implies to me that some action will be taken. But they cannot correct the book themselves legally AFAIK or force anyone else to do it either. And I would think that unless massive complaints came in about an individual book, it would be very expensive to check the truthfulness of the reports? From what I have heard they carry a lot of unproofed books.

I have bought ebooks with scanning errors, and borrowed library books with scanning errors. And library books with header/footers randomly interspersed. Luckily a minority and all but one readable, and the unreadable one was not only free but uninteresting.

I find the subject interesting as I see no way for a bookseller to effectively police this without checking every page of every book and refusing to sell it if it is not at least reasonable, and I think this would cost a pile of cash.

Overall the ultimate cost of selling ugly books is to make people like myself, stick mainly with the traditionally published or the author who has published more than one book, and this is not great for the future of literature.

I often read five or six Indie titles a year, but generally I am more of a backlist/midlist reader and I cannot remember that this has lead me to a really badly formatted/proofed ebook in the last two years.

Helen

[CWatkinsNash]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

I'm wondering how many books get reported and what action Amazon takes or should be expected to take. If they give an option to report content error, that implies to me that some action will be taken. But they cannot correct the book themselves legally AFAIK or force anyone else to do it either. And I would think that unless massive complaints came in about an individual book, it would be very expensive to check the truthfulness of the reports? From what I have heard they carry a lot of unproofed books.

I'm guessing that the number of refunds they have to process on a given book would be the factor for determining whether or not to remove it from sale until it's fixed.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by CWatkinsNash

I'm guessing that the number of refunds they have to process on a given book would be the factor for determining whether or not to remove it from sale until it's fixed.

I am sure you are right if the sales and ratio are high enough, but do they actually . But do they lose much money processing a refund? Especially on a free book? I actually can't see them noticing unless it was a best seller. I assume, of course, that if a refund is issued the author/publisher doesn't get paid, and even if 90% of the book sales are returned, the remaining 10% will still allow close to break even.

Helen

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Then perhaps I remembered wrong.

I cannot test it as I don't have the old tools archived.

Not a big deal, when I switched to the Calibre add on tools, I stopped worrying about the stand alone python script. That's why I still have the original 2008 script. I doubt very many people still use it, the Calibre tools is so much quicker and easier. They also do tpz files, which the python script doesn't. I've sent them quite a few dollars over the years to support their good work.

[TCSimpson]

I can confirm that Amazon has taken down author's books when enough complaints have been filed. What that number is, no one knows. The thing is that within KDP console after you upload your book, Amazon has software that will tell you how many errors it has found in your book. Those errors are basically only spelling errors and words they do not recognize (proper names, made up names and the like.) I'm not sure how many authors pay attention to it.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

You are right. I took your saying that Amazon needed to stay focused and in danger of becoming complacent an distracted to mean that you thought they already were. My mistake and I apologise.

I also agree that Amazon will eventually have stiff competition, although I don't think it will be this year or next.

I think that they are juggling too many balls, and I have seen a few of them drop already. But that is just my opinion.

I don't agree that they are a monopoly, although they do have a pretty strong position in the book market and many others.

I am aware of the Internet Explorer/Netscape examples although I was unaware that either was a monopoly. My understanding was with Internet Explorer the big objection was that it was packaged with Windows, which it still seems to be. And 19% does not seem a really shabby position.

And why would DRM have anything to do with competition in the ebook market? Publishers and authors can sell with it or without it at more than one place already including Amazon, and including of course their own stores if they have them or want to start them and most publishers and authors seem to feel it advantageous to sell with it.

Hope I am not putting words in your mouth again, and my sincere apologies for my wrong conclusion.

Helen

I'm pretty sure that at the time IE usage was up over 90%, which is where the Amazon ebook store was at for a while.

No need to apologize, web boards are narrow communication bands, so misunderstandings are to be expected. I'm sure that I could do a much better job of communicating my ideas clearly.

The big thing that DRM does is make it difficult for stores to sell ebooks that work with all sorts of readers and all sorts of formats. I don't have a big problem converting between formats since I've taken the time to acquire the tools needed, but most consumers have neither the desire nor the ability to follow that path. Right now, both the Amazon and B&N book reader apps are tightly coupled to their stores. The Kindle devices are very tightly coupled to the Amazon store. I can buy Amazon books from Baen books, for example, that doesn't have DRM and automatically gets sent to my kindle device, If I were to desire it.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

I don't think they should be able to force a publisher to update a book although they should be able to refuse to carry it if it is ugly.

"force the publisher to update the book" ... or Amazon will stop carrying it. I thought the implication was obvious, but perhaps it wasn't.

Obviously, Amazon cannot force them to do anything they refuse to do.

[SteveEisenberg]

Getting back to errors:

Spelling and punctuation errors, if I notice them (and I mostly don't), can be distracting. But they pale in significance to content errors, such as a nonfiction book ignoring the best previous scholarship on the subject, or a character, in a novel, behaving out of character without an explanation. Another plot error that has peeved me is someone dying in quicksand. Since it is almost impossible to drown in quicksand (one floats), I've have the experience of expecting to find out the death was faked, but then, in the end, it wasn't, either because the author is ignorant of quicksand's properties, or thinks we readers are.

In general, the more one could argue back and forth over whether an error is really an error, the worse it probably is. And the more unambiguous the error, the more trivial it is. This is one reason I can't see myself complaining over proofreading errors.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

I'm pretty sure that at the time IE usage was up over 90%, which is where the Amazon ebook store was at for a while.

No need to apologize, web boards are narrow communication bands, so misunderstandings are to be expected. I'm sure that I could do a much better job of communicating my ideas clearly.

The big thing that DRM does is make it difficult for stores to sell ebooks that work with all sorts of readers and all sorts of formats. I don't have a big problem converting between formats since I've taken the time to acquire the tools needed, but most consumers have neither the desire nor the ability to follow that path. Right now, both the Amazon and B&N book reader apps are tightly coupled to their stores. The Kindle devices are very tightly coupled to the Amazon store. I can buy Amazon books from Baen books, for example, that doesn't have DRM and automatically gets sent to my kindle device, If I were to desire it.

Thanks for being the bigger person and saying no need when there obviously was I was in error.

DRM makes it pretty well impossible for stores to sell ebooks that will work on any reader. But in the case of the major players, Amazon and Kobo, possibly Applei is this not what they want? I think Amazon would be crazy to let people buy books easily from other stores if they can prevent it, likewise Kobo or Apple.

Possibly someone is developing a reading device that will be able to handle all types of DRM and that will solve the problem. Oh wait, most tablets can do that and possibly a phone or two.

I am just not understanding the miracle that will occur when you can read book on any device without authorization. Lots of people don't care, but then again lots of people don't read so that means nothing.

Aside from MR I have yet to encounter a reader who cared though. Ignorance of the problem or not a big problem for those who are not big into collecting books. Very few, seem to be.

I am no doubt confusing the issue. I do not see it as to a publishers advantage to go DRM free or for a bookstores advantage to make it easy for people to buy from their competitors.

Most front/mid list books AFAIK are available in either format/DRM type, and in the US can often be obtained free fin either format. Only epub in Canada, but that has not stopped kindle sales here. Plus most books can still be bought or borrowed in paper even in Canada.

Well as you can no doubt tell from my rambling, I am missing the point where DRM removal will make things better for all but the truly honest and paranoid.

Helen

[MikeB1972]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Amazon has actually updated their DRM a number of times IIRC, and *the tools* have been updated to match it.

Granted, they don't seem to care as much as Adobe, what with ADE3/ADE4beta and all.

Well, Adobe care a lot more as they are selling DRM and Amazon is selling books.

[pwalker8]

If I were to apologize every time I was in error, I would spend all my time saying I'm sorry! As long as one isn't trying to insult someone or isn't being malicious I see no reason to apologize for making mistakes. I do try to acknowledge that I was in error or that the other person is correct.

IMPO, the big reasons that DRM free is important for completion in the ebook store industry are

- the consumer doesn't have to worry about losing access to their ebooks. When Sony closed down their estore, then the customers no longer had access to a percentage of ebooks that had been pulled from the Sony store because the contract had expired. I think I had about a dozen books that didn't make the transition from Sony to Kobo. Fortunately, I download my ebooks as I purchase them, so I have them all.

- Even if a consumer reads on a tablet rather than a dedicated ebook reader, most probably don't want to have to have a bunch of reader apps and remember which app they used to purchase which ebook. For example, I have all my ebooks in Marvin, even though I bought them from Sony, Amazon and Baen.

Yes, obviously Amazon would prefer that you buy all your ebooks from them and read those books on your kindle device, just like Apple would prefer that you buy all your music from the iTunes store and listen on your iPod. However, Apple figured out that they would have more long term customers if they gave them the ability to rip CD's and put that music in their iTunes library. Given that Amazon put the effort into writing a kindle app for all sorts of different devices (a lesson that Sony didn't learn until they had already too far behind to catch up), and that Amazon allows the publisher to decide on DRM, it's pretty obvious that Amazon understands that they need to be flexible with customers. I would not be surprised if Amazon goes the Apple route and adds support for non Amazon formats to the kindle apps, as well as allows customers the flexibility of uploading their none Amazon books to the amazon cloud.

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

Thanks for being the bigger person and saying no need when there obviously was I was in error.

DRM makes it pretty well impossible for stores to sell ebooks that will work on any reader. But in the case of the major players, Amazon and Kobo, possibly Applei is this not what they want? I think Amazon would be crazy to let people buy books easily from other stores if they can prevent it, likewise Kobo or Apple.

Possibly someone is developing a reading device that will be able to handle all types of DRM and that will solve the problem. Oh wait, most tablets can do that and possibly a phone or two.

I am just not understanding the miracle that will occur when you can read book on any device without authorization. Lots of people don't care, but then again lots of people don't read so that means nothing.

Aside from MR I have yet to encounter a reader who cared though. Ignorance of the problem or not a big problem for those who are not big into collecting books. Very few, seem to be.

I am no doubt confusing the issue. I do not see it as to a publishers advantage to go DRM free or for a bookstores advantage to make it easy for people to buy from their competitors.

Most front/mid list books AFAIK are available in either format/DRM type, and in the US can often be obtained free fin either format. Only epub in Canada, but that has not stopped kindle sales here. Plus most books can still be bought or borrowed in paper even in Canada.

Well as you can no doubt tell from my rambling, I am missing the point where DRM removal will make things better for all but the truly honest and paranoid.

Helen